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Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

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Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#81

Post by notinty »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #8
coding123 wrote: post #3

> The world is finally coming to terms with the realization that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is airborne It's funny. The world is definitely a place we are willing to let 5 million people die. But we are definitely not allowed to have a single study where we have 1 definitely infected person stand in an air sealed room for 1 hour 6 feet away with someone not infected. Don't get me wrong, I have been wearing a blue 3M…

Like the mountain of evidence (videos, photos, scientific proof, testimony from people who have actually gone up and seen it) has shut up the flat earth community.

Flat earthers are having fun. Anti-maskers notsomuch.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#82

Post by andbberger »

bb123 wrote: post #13

Good ventilation is easy to do in the summer months, but it is winter in the northern hemisphere at the moment, and fuel prices are at all time highs. That means adequate ventilation is likely an expensive thing to achieve. Not to mention the environmental consequences of extra energy consumption, along with the plastic pollution from littered masks and lateral flow tests - they’re absolutely everywhere.

heat recovery ventilators are a thing, but not nearly as popular as they should be

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#83

Post by marcosdumay »

mlyle wrote: post #52
Der_Einzige wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, given that virus particles start to be meaningfully filtered only at a certain MERV level (14?), that upgrade may in fact have been more than a "minor symbolic" gesture.

MERV-13 is pretty good. Better than 90% filtration at 1 micrometer and up. It then comes down to how many air changes you can expect.

> Better than 90% filtration at 1 micrometer and up.

What means it's probably useless against any airbone virus. But it's pretty great against particle pollution, in case you want to use it in a private space.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#84

Post by jimkleiber »

cryptodan wrote: post #65
anonporridge wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will eventually become just another element in economic selection. The wealthy and the high income earners will start avoiding buildings, businesses, and organizations that won't or can't sufficiently upgrade to be considered safe. Their money will flow and support the healthy/safe alternatives. Those that are left behind will be the dregs that the poor and desperate use and will gradually fall into disrepair unti…

It won't change my habits. I'm not going to ask every business owner to provide their facilities maintenance info before I go to a place of business. If I get sick I get sick. It may or may not be the fault of the business.

I wonder if it just gets built into health/building codes. I don't want to ask every business to do X and yet I hope sometimes regulators do.

I think the challenge with indoor air circulation is the energy required to do so, especially when heating/cooling of the air is involved.

But, I'd sure love better indoor air quality.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#85

Post by nikolay »

How about ionizing the air where it's cold and impractical to open the windows? There are nice devices, which have certification, and don't produce ozone. When I traveled to Europe this year, I saw ionizers in the Munich airport and nowhere else, unfortunately.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#87

Post by PeterisP »

Madmallard wrote: post #32
chillwaves wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a problem of comfortable humidity levels. If you just have open windows, it seems like you will have very dry air. There are modern solutions for air exchanges that do retain some of the heat and moisture while allowing for fresh air to ventilate the indoor space. https://www.explainthatstuff.com/heat-recovery-ventilation.h...

? If your windows are open you will trend toward outside weather. If you’re in a dry climate then yeah it’ll be dryer but the reverse is also true. Outside air is far better than inside nearly everywhere in the world

For humidity, the key issue is that relative humidity matters for us and that is temperature dependent.

For example, if outside air has 100% humidity, then it effectively can't absorb more (e.g. evaporation of sweat) and would make things moist, but at -5 degrees Celsius, which I have now outside my window, that's only 2.46 g of water per kg of air - and if that exact air flows inside and gets heated to room temperature then it would suddenly have only ~17% humidity and would gladly absorb moisture from wherever possible e.g. my throat or skin; and any air going outside would remove more water vapor than the incoming air can possibly replace.

There are ways around that (ventilation systems that exchange temperature and also retain moisture), but they need to be installed at some expense, you won't get that by opening a window.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#88

Post by nikolay »

ajmurmann wrote: post #76
orblivion wrote: post #11

It baffles me that Fauci etc didn't mention this in the next breath after hand washing and masking. It's easy during nice weather.

Is hand washing even that relevant given the virus gets mostly inhaled? I've never seen any studies on this.

I haven't seen any proof either. But people keep poisoning their lungs with alcohol and other toxic vapors!

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#89

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

marcosdumay wrote: post #83
mlyle wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MERV-13 is pretty good. Better than 90% filtration at 1 micrometer and up. It then comes down to how many air changes you can expect.

> Better than 90% filtration at 1 micrometer and up. What means it's probably useless against any airbone virus. But it's pretty great against particle pollution, in case you want to use it in a private space.

Virus size is not the correct metric for a virus transmitted in aerosolized or droplet form (notably, COVID19). What matters is the aerosol/droplet size, which in this case is substantially above 1 micrometer.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#90

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

taeric wrote: post #34
nicoburns wrote: post #4

This agrees with my intuitive impression of everything I've read on Covid-19: that the primary transmission vector is through the being in unventilated or poorly ventilated enclosed spaces with an infected person for ~15 minutes or longer. I definitely feel like neither governmental policies or people's individual precautions and behaviours quite reflect that reality.

Annoyingly, my intuitive impression is that we are still far more ignorant than we'd care to admit. Being in a place where we all willingly wear masks to grocery shop, I get the impression we are far more cautious than most places. Still, I expect it is just a matter of time before we are exposed. Why? I honestly don't know. It isn't lack of wanting to be safer. But it has gotten fatiguing to try to keep up with what…

The precautions required to guarantee zero exposure to an airborne virus are incredibly more substantial than most of us will ever be able to carry out in ordinary life (think biohazard labs).

So yes, almost all of us are going to be exposed to SARS-COV-2 at some point. Slowdowns are doubleplus good because the biggest risk from the disease is related to its impact on public health care systems rather than serious illness or death at the individual level. Masks slow down transmission, vaccination reduces chance of required hospitalization.

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