Icon Ambulance • Hacker News Board

Re: Icon Ambulance

#81

Post by mweimer » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 8:14 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #72

> I'm sorry I didn't answer your call earlier. I was in religious services... Is that what he literally said? "In religious services"? I find it really hard to believe. It is more fitting of a blog post that has been adopted to the format of "The Jobs Tales". Gender-neutral, religion-agnostic, PG-13.

Since the author is Indian, he is most likely Hindu. If he said he was attending Hindu temple worship service (or whatever they call it), some readers may have not know what he was talking about. I think it was simpler to phrase it that way.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#82

Post by vessenes » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 8:36 PM UTC

grammaton wrote: post #60

sskates wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs WAS perceived as absolutely absurd during his first stint at Apple. It's a big part of why the board kicked him out in 1985. If he didn't have a track record of success on the iPod, iPhone, and iPad, his demanding and aggressive personality wouldn't go over as well. Most people with his type of personality come off as extremely abrasive more than they come off as "genius".

Pull this sort of thing when you're an average executive or middle management, and you're an abrasive, demanding idiot. Pull it when you have a few billion in the bank, and you're a "visionary."

Except that he _is_ a visionary.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#83

Post by zwischenzug » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 8:51 PM UTC

cmelbye wrote: post #9

nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

I think attention to detail in terms of a column name is different than attention to visual design and look and feel of a product.

Why? To me, it's the same thing in the end, since I've seen a poorly named column cause impedance mismatches felt for years in countless ways and costing God knows how much to - ultimately - the consumer.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#84

Post by zwischenzug » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 8:53 PM UTC

jprobert wrote: post #59

nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

The difference between your example and the Steve Jobs anecdote is that one is backend and the other is customer facing. Getting all of the details right for the customer is paramount for him but I doubt he would fret over the minute details on the backend.

Indeed; iTunes was a complete POS as a piece of commercial music managing software, and with a little focus _very_ easily fixed. He didn't seem to care about that too much.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#85

Post by zwischenzug » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 8:53 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #39

nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns I have worked for people like that.

I've been that.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#86

Post by philwelch » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 9:00 PM UTC

ary wrote: post #74

Sudden love for Gundotra's favorite authoritarian? Sounds more like a sigh of relief. Vic Gundotra at Google I/O 2010: "if Google did not act we faced a Draconian future, a future where one man, one company, one device, one carrier would be our only choice"

I don't know how relevant this is, but you can respect your opponents, and retirement is the best time to do so.

As a child, I was a religious fan of the Seattle Sonics. I knew virtually the entire roster by name, face, and number. And I watched them in the playoffs the year they made the finals against the Bulls. I hated Michael Jordan. Maybe that's a strong word, but I wanted nothing more than to see him and the Bulls beaten, especially by the Sonics. Despite some excellent play by Seattle, the Bulls won again, and again the next year against Utah.

When Jordan retired, I respected him. I wanted to see him beaten in the late prime of his championship winning career but he never let it happen. Not even my Sonics could beat him, but losing to Jordan's Bulls meant almost as much as beating a lesser team in the Finals. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's easy to see many of Apple's competitors and rivals taking a moment to acknowledge and respect the man.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#87

Post by abcd_f » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 9:23 PM UTC

mweimer wrote: post #81

huhtenberg wrote: post #72

> I'm sorry I didn't answer your call earlier. I was in religious services... Is that what he literally said? "In religious services"? I find it really hard to believe. It is more fitting of a blog post that has been adopted to the format of "The Jobs Tales". Gender-neutral, religion-agnostic, PG-13.

Since the author is Indian, he is most likely Hindu. If he said he was attending Hindu temple worship service (or whatever they call it), some readers may have not know what he was talking about. I think it was simpler to phrase it that way.

He was quoting the conversation, and there's only one way to "phrase" a quotation.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#88

Post by pdenya » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 9:59 PM UTC

nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

Yea, I read that thinking the same thing. It's also possible that, regardless of how this was perceived internally, it's being touted as a great anecdote because now is not the time for a 'Steve Jobs is a dick' post.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#89

Post by protomyth » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 10:21 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #72

> I'm sorry I didn't answer your call earlier. I was in religious services... Is that what he literally said? "In religious services"? I find it really hard to believe. It is more fitting of a blog post that has been adopted to the format of "The Jobs Tales". Gender-neutral, religion-agnostic, PG-13.

Some people might decide the details of their religion are nobody's business. Some would say they were at "church" or "temple" or "religious service". I have heard folks in the midwest say "they went to a religious service". I don't see how it is "Gender-neutral, religion-agnostic, PG-13".

Re: Icon Ambulance

#90

Post by mikeleeorg » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 11:16 PM UTC

Duff wrote: post #52

nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

I've had bosses who were just lost in details and micromanaging. It's usually annoying and rarely adds anything to whatever you want to do. But I've also worked for a couple of people who were simply masters of their craft who demanded excellence. One was a shop and drafting teacher. The other was a farmer. Both had the experience in their area to know what was "right" and was empowered to do things their way... But…

I definitely agree. There's a difference in "nitpicking" for true product excellence, and "nitpicking" because of some deeper-rooted insecurity.

Everyone believes they're doing the former, but many are really doing the latter.

Then there are those doing the former that are simply wrong - their customers don't actually find their nitpick all that important or valuable.

I've dealt with all three kinds. And I've tried to emulate attention to detail for product excellence, but I'm sure people thought I was just a nitpicking insecure jackass.

My hat is off to those rare individuals who can do it very well.