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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#81

Post by charcircuit »

endisneigh wrote: post #71
letmeinhere wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your mind Charles Ponzi innovated the principle of factoring in the likelihood of growth into economic planning? And any investment that is premised on that growth is thus a Ponzi scheme? I guess we can use words however we want, sure. Also, again, lol that roads pass this criteria. No expectation of growth and expanding tax bases there...

Requiring growth is not a Ponzi scheme, requiring additional investors for the initial ones to be paid is. Do you have an actual rebuttal?

Where do you think the additional inventors come from (especial if everyone is forced to invest)?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#82

Post by jseban »

endisneigh wrote: post #72
mschuster91 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality. Way too many people only can make ends meet by both partners being full-time employed - and in some cases (such as shown by a recent Last Week Tonight episode) even that is not enough to prevent being homeless. Rents are too high, and wages are too low.

People don’t have to have children. And people can and do stay at home with their children at all income levels.

Yeah and also, most (upper) middle class families in the US are making a lot more money so can actually afford much more time home with their children, compared to the paid leave that Europe has. So that's actually better from one point of view, the only "downside" then is traditional gender roles. Who cares about 1 year maternal leave, when you can already afford 10 years maternal leave?

Would be very interesting to see actual time spent not working, and caring for children at home, in relation to amount of paid leave. And across income brackets. Would not be surprised if it comes out to more time with children in many cases even though paid leave is less..

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#83

Post by Fiahil »

> If you live in Canada or, say, France, you are probably amused by this little thought experiment.

Yes, we (France) get a __mandatory__ 6 weeks paid leave before the baby is born, then 10 weeks after.

Dads get a little less, 25 calendar days after the baby is born.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#84

Post by endisneigh »

TimPC wrote: post #73
endisneigh wrote: post #18

The problem with parental leave is the same problem with universal health care or any entitlement that isn’t utilized by the entire population at the same rate constantly. Things like roads (and even then there are many locales with crappy roads) are easy to justify. Things like parental leave and universal health care are hard because the percentage of those utilizing will be low and the disproportionate benefit wil…

Roads aren’t as easy to justify as you think. Different people use them at different rates and in order to account for this there is a concept called a “toll road” which is a road that has usage fees. I’d argue if you can support public roads despite them being used at different rates by the population then these benefits shouldn’t be shot down by the same objection.

Roads are already funded by usage except for highways which is funded federally, which is my point to begin with.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#85

Post by jseban »

jcranmer wrote: post #80
bko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. That's like saying why are incomes in Mexico so much lower than the US? Just do what the US does. In fact, Mexico has 12 weeks. And Greece has 40. I'd rather be a parent in the US than Greece or Mexico. Policies don't exist in a vacuum.

Sweden has 48 weeks. Would you rather be a parent in the US than Sweden?

A rational answer to that would be yes for anyone who is making an above average salary, and no only if you are below average. That's how all tax funded benefits work.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#86

Post by lotsofpulp »

maxehmookau wrote: post #40
bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

> But obviously it doesn't make sense for many businesses, otherwise they would all be doing it. Or, despite the fact that they believe so deeply that time off to produce the next generation of workers and consumers is a net loss to their bottom line, they're actually wrong and are yet to discover this. Parental leave should be a universal benefit for workers, period. Employers should foot the bill.

>Employers should foot the bill.

I think society should foot the bill for society-wide benefits. I do not see any reason to expect small businesses (or even large businesses) to have to worry about the costs of funding parental leave benefits, outside of having the requisite staffing.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#88

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

bko wrote: post #59
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

> Given that _every_ other "civilised" country has some sort of rudimentary care for new parents, which doesn't acutally cost that much, I can't see any reasonable objection to not having it. Giving a special benefit that will for the most part only be exercised by women discourages hiring women. You can still think its worth it, but don't pretend like you're baffled by anyone who would object or question how this im…

Give the benefits to dads too. 4 weeks for the first kid is challenging. It could be different for 2+ kids, but remember that every child has a few complications when they are born, that. Fade away after a while.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#89

Post by ykevinator3 »

bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

Yeah I agree, we need socialist child care and socialist health care (and pretty much everything else should be free market). The sooner we decouple basic health and child care from employers, watch how many people quit their jobs to stat businesses.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#90

Post by speedgoose »

bko wrote: post #68
speedgoose wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why US can't have better parental leave policies when Greece, France, or Mexico can?

> Nevertheless, the participation of Greek women in the labour market continues to be 8-10 percent below the average of E.U. countries Unemployment in Greece is nearly triple what it is in the US (14%). Policies don't exist in a vacuum. Everything has trade offs. Until you accept that you'll never have a productive honest conversation. [0] https://ideas.repec.org/p/wiw/wiwrsa/ersa06p257.html

I don't understand the logic. Because Greece has some issues with its women employment rate, USA can't do anything about parental leaves? You even suggested in your initial post simple solutions for this problem, that work in other countries.
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