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I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

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Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#81

Post by 999900000999 »

moron4hire wrote: post #52
999900000999 wrote: post #25

These stories scare me. Particularly from Amazon where you don't get most of your TC until year 3. At least at Netflix they pay more cash and if I get fired after a year I have it in my bank.

Absolutely. And that's just your base. Every year, you're getting more and more that don't vest until this range of time that is so incredibly far out on tech industry scales. This is what kept me out of Amazon. The over-emphasis on RSUs for compensation was clearly a half-scam designed to avoid paying full salary out to people and to try to squeeze anyone who was on the fence about leaving.

Thanks for the info. I have zero tolerance for bs so I really value being able to leave.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#82

Post by bradknowles »

peakaboo wrote: post #44
asow92 wrote: post #41

Sounds like so called "FAANG" companies that OP mentions have a smug sense of superiority. If you're a good engineer who wants to make a real difference in the world, then I ask why not work at different company with less technical aptitude? You can make a far greater impact solving their problems instead of trying to stand out in a technocratic cult that gaslights you and suppresses your creativity.

Did you just use making the world a better place in a non-ironical way? That stuff is from comedy, not reality. You can't make the world a better place from your computer. You can make money, you can build nice programs, but not make the world a better place.

With respect, I must disagree.

I think there are some serious problems in this world that we can help solve from our computers, and in addition to the company making some profit, the world as a whole can also benefit.

We will see.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#83

Post by bradknowles »

moron4hire wrote: post #52
999900000999 wrote: post #25

These stories scare me. Particularly from Amazon where you don't get most of your TC until year 3. At least at Netflix they pay more cash and if I get fired after a year I have it in my bank.

Absolutely. And that's just your base. Every year, you're getting more and more that don't vest until this range of time that is so incredibly far out on tech industry scales. This is what kept me out of Amazon. The over-emphasis on RSUs for compensation was clearly a half-scam designed to avoid paying full salary out to people and to try to squeeze anyone who was on the fence about leaving.

I’ve been in multiple different jobs over the years where part of my compensation was stock or stock options.

Sometimes it can be some real money. At AOL in 1996, I cleared more than $80k from stock options, which was more than my base salary for the year. But I ended up walking away from stock options at AOL that would have been as much as $16m, if I had managed to find a way to stay there. But the place has just become too toxic.

I’ve also been at places where I theoretically had stock or stock options, and they wound up being literally worthless.

Stock and stock options for employees are meant to be a form of golden handcuffs.

That’s why I don’t include them in my consideration of what I would be compensated for at a job. If I get some extra money that year, great! If not, then I’m not too dejected.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#84

Post by crossroadsguy »

moron4hire wrote: post #56
yummy_box wrote: post #3

I also work at Amazon, and I can tell you, your experience was pretty unique. Some teams are worst than others, of course, but no one expect you to pick up a project by yourself, fresh out of onboarding and own it end to end. After you clear your interview loops, you get the chance to match with several teams (not always) and that is your chance to figure out what the team does, whats the situation over there, etc...…

There is always someone coming into the thread to say "that's not been my experience". Frankly, the company is so large, how could you know? When you get a situation like the article describes, you could be sitting a desk over from the guy and still never know. I've seen dozens of stories just like this of toxic behavior at Amazon. It makes it sound like they have their flagship projects that they use to attract deve…

When someone says this about companies like Amazon or Uber I immediately find it suspicious (Shills? Apologists? Or people from PR/HR?) because people at these two companies I know personally have nothing but horror stories. As in - that is the general sentiment I get.

There’s another aspect I always get - they knew what they were getting into or it became clear pretty quick and they went in or continued just for the money.

What never gets mentioned is “best and brightest” minds rhetoric that I see in posts and comments online. They say it’s so fast paced, toxic, burn outs causing the revolving door of attrition to move constantly that there’s no time to meaningfully do this “interacting with those proverbial super minds”

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#85

Post by crossroadsguy »

endisneigh wrote: post #9

I won’t comment on whether the action is justified or not in this instance, but: Never hang up on a colleague. Ever. As far as social phone etiquette goes that’s probably one of the most egregious things you can do. Instead, humble yourself, politely disagree and document over email, copying another colleague who witnessed, or if unavailable the manager (in this case the skip).

I kinda agree but when one side is hell bent on being dishonest and toxic right from the beginning then does it really matter whether you actually hung up or not unless every such call of yours is getting recorded and monitored precisely?

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#86

Post by crossroadsguy »

kempbellt wrote: post #68
tinyhouse wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually very false. Amazon is not hard to get fired from, but it takes time since there's a mandatory pip process (for performance based firing) like in many tech companies (about 4 months in the US, longer in some European countries; it's often shorter if the candidate agrees to take large severance and leave).

Ah, ye old "Performance Improvement Plan". The passive-aggressively worded, modern version of whipping someone for "not working hard enough". If you ever get slotted for a PIP (such a cute name...), it's probably better to look for new employment as soon as possible.

> If you ever get slotted for a PIP (such a cute name...), it's probably better to look for new employment as soon as possible.

I mean that’s like literally the dictionary meaning of PIP :)

In my last firm we called it Period of Interview Preparation.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#87

Post by crossroadsguy »

bradknowles wrote: post #82
peakaboo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just use making the world a better place in a non-ironical way? That stuff is from comedy, not reality. You can't make the world a better place from your computer. You can make money, you can build nice programs, but not make the world a better place.

With respect, I must disagree. I think there are some serious problems in this world that we can help solve from our computers, and in addition to the company making some profit, the world as a whole can also benefit. We will see.

Please name some that pays well and doesn’t burn me out of sanity. Genuinely interested in knowing.

And I’m not even interested in intergalactic salaries but yes very good pay.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#88

Post by crossroadsguy »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #49
peakaboo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just use making the world a better place in a non-ironical way? That stuff is from comedy, not reality. You can't make the world a better place from your computer. You can make money, you can build nice programs, but not make the world a better place.

I know what you are saying and to a large degree I agree with you. But, I will note that in my career the software I worked on helped people get health care, helped abused children find help, kept pilots and their passengers safe, and a whole lot of other worthwhile missions. So if your skill set is tech, there are opportunities out there apart from just selling more advertising.

What are some companies that pay well (not ridiculously well), offer job security and have kinda longer release plans which can foster learning, stable products, and can ensure a san work culture that respects the personal time boundaries as the default?

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#89

Post by asow92 »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #87
bradknowles wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, I must disagree. I think there are some serious problems in this world that we can help solve from our computers, and in addition to the company making some profit, the world as a whole can also benefit. We will see.

Please name some that pays well and doesn’t burn me out of sanity. Genuinely interested in knowing. And I’m not even interested in intergalactic salaries but yes very good pay.

Good pay is relative. What’s good pay to you?

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#90

Post by nikau »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #84
moron4hire wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is always someone coming into the thread to say "that's not been my experience". Frankly, the company is so large, how could you know? When you get a situation like the article describes, you could be sitting a desk over from the guy and still never know. I've seen dozens of stories just like this of toxic behavior at Amazon. It makes it sound like they have their flagship projects that they use to attract deve…

When someone says this about companies like Amazon or Uber I immediately find it suspicious (Shills? Apologists? Or people from PR/HR?) because people at these two companies I know personally have nothing but horror stories. As in - that is the general sentiment I get. There’s another aspect I always get - they knew what they were getting into or it became clear pretty quick and they went in or continued just for the…

Having worked in large fortune 500 companies they can be totally different experiences depending on the department and particularly the country you work in.

For example a US company will be different to work at if you are in an office in a country with strong labour laws.

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