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Improving first impressions on Signal

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Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#81

Post by approxim8ion »

stereoradonc wrote: post #57
modeless wrote: post #21

Just got a new phone and migrating Signal was a total disaster. The first thing I did was login to the new phone which is apparently the wrong thing to do because you lose all your old messages and there's no option to import after you login. You have to logout but there is no logout . Gotta uninstall and reinstall, or clear app data. Next I tried the account migration feature which requires using both phones simulta…

Try Telegram. It's easier to get seduced by tall sounding words like "cryptography", censorship, "security", anonymity etc. Those are just buzz words. Try something that works seamlessly across platforms.

They're just buzzwords if you don't understand what they mean. Or don't want to.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#82

Post by johnisgood »

avinassh wrote: post #77
johnisgood wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there is no E2EE on desktop. People should really stop talking about Telegram when we are talking about secure private messaging apps. Telegram DOES NOT HAVE E2EE on desktop and it is opt-in on phones. Briar is the best choice on phones, and it is also available on desktop which is under development. For now, Ricochet is the best choice on desktop (only). I get that it would be nice to have a piece of software wo…

I see an option of secret chat in my desktop app. Is that not E2EE? Because its the same option in mobile

https://tsf.telegram.org/manuals/e2ee-simple#2-why-are-there...

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#83

Post by lxgr »

girzel wrote: post #40
Waterluvian wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool! Is there a way to say “always use SMS because this signal contact isn’t on signal anymore”

When you stop using signal, you can log in to the signal website and say "I'm no longer using Signal"; that will solve the problem with your Signal-using contacts. I just checked and it looks life you have to deregister your account from within the Signal app (ie, can't uninstall first). I'm pretty sure it used to be more lenient: I remember friends being able to deregister their numbers after the fact.

Are you sure you don't mean iMessage or something else?

As far as I know, Signal offers no such option on their website.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#84

Post by GekkePrutser »

johnisgood wrote: post #71
stereoradonc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. Telegram is far superior to any other platform out there. Balance of privacy and security, by default.

Briar is far superior. Yes, there is support for desktop as well, but it is under heavy development. For phones: Briar For desktop: Ricochet Yes, I get it, Ricochet lacks a lot of goodies Telegram has, but having stickers != secure. For secure chatting only, Ricochet does the job. No one will even know that you are using it. :)

> No one will even know that you are using it. :)

Apart from all the red flags you're raising by using tor though..

The problem with tor is that it's associated with a lot of malicious stuff. The same way that IRC was for a while. Using it on a VPS for example was forbidden at many providers. Though since the rise of Freenode (and its fall and re-emergence as Libera) it has re-established itself as a platform for serious communication.

Though this kind of legitimate use is exactly what Tor needs to get out of the "dark" corner in many people's eyes, I do think it's there at the moment.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#85

Post by GekkePrutser »

Tistron wrote: post #41

Is there a reason, when they have control of the client software and the protocol, that they don't introduce computational cost to establishing contact? Like, if I send a message to a particular number, and their client receives a message from me for the first time, it responds with "prove that it's worth it for you to message me: find an `n` character string that together with `random string` hashes to 5 leading zer…

I think with the current climate crisis we should be wary of introducing more unnecessary computation. The internet already uses a substantial amount of the world's energy.

We should try to bring this down, not up. And bitcoin showed how quickly the technology catches up with such requirements by using GPUs, ASICs etc.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#86

Post by johnisgood »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #84
johnisgood wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Briar is far superior. Yes, there is support for desktop as well, but it is under heavy development. For phones: Briar For desktop: Ricochet Yes, I get it, Ricochet lacks a lot of goodies Telegram has, but having stickers != secure. For secure chatting only, Ricochet does the job. No one will even know that you are using it. :)

> No one will even know that you are using it. :) Apart from all the red flags you're raising by using tor though.. The problem with tor is that it's associated with a lot of malicious stuff. The same way that IRC was for a while. Using it on a VPS for example was forbidden at many providers. Though since the rise of Freenode (and its fall and re-emergence as Libera) it has re-established itself as a platform for ser…

IRC has always been for serious communication to me at least and the people I knew... ever since I was 9. I am surprised it was associated with malicious stuff.

I have no idea why Tor is associated with malicious stuff. I mean sure, I do know, but people are people. Cash is associated with malicious stuff, too, or can be, because people buy all sorts of illegal stuff off the streets with cash. People are just being people, they always find a way. I hate it when things are ruined because of people who may do malicious stuff. Tor represents freedom to me. There has been anonymous chatting websites anyway, and it has nothing to do with malicious stuff. Or well, it may have, similarly to say, Omegle. If we banned everything that is associated with malicious stuff, we would have literally nothing, we would have no Internet, we would have no cash, we would not have anything for real. In any case, I hate this kind of thinking, that is for sure. :/

> Apart from all the red flags you're raising by using tor though..

Yep, I wish this was not the case. I am on IRC to which I connect using Tor. Now, both IRC and Tor is (or was) associated with malicious stuff! Imagine being on a shit list for this. :D I do it for my own privacy and security, but the reason is not that I am doing anything malicious. Sometimes I even use OTR on IRC just because I do not want the server to possibly know what I am talking about (no clue about the protocol right now, so I am not sure if they can actually read it, but I do not think it's P2P).

So yeah, people should stop with the false assumptions and silly heuristics. I mean, come on, I bought coffee and groceries with Bitcoin before, and many people bought illegal stuff with cash. Thus, I will never understand the argument against Bitcoin related to "Bitcoin is used for illegal stuff" bullshit. Both Bitcoin and cash has been used to buy illegal stuff, so what?! People are being people, stop blaming the technology that has benefits to many people who are not doing illegal stuff.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#87

Post by noja »

dewey wrote: post #16
noja wrote: post #14

Great, but... Please let people allow Signal to automatically save their media to their photo roll (or whatever ios calls it). The number of people I have met who require this and left Signal _after starting to use it_ is astonishing.

Do you think that's really the reason they are abandoning it? I think the bigger issue is probably that most of their friends are not on there and they use it less frequently until they abandon it.

They abandoned it for two reasons: the reason above (automatic saving of family photos doesn't exist), and notifications not showing up.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#88

Post by Markoff »

First impressions? I left Signal years ago after using it for years, but I have one question - do they still actively hide that by long pressing Send button you can force send SMS instead Signal message or they show it to user at first launch somehow?

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#89

Post by GekkePrutser »

myself248 wrote: post #27

These all seem like useful changes, but I've never received spam over Signal. I'm glad that solves a problem for someone. What I have received were creepy messages from long-lost acquaintances who had been suddenly reminded, by virtue of my having installed the Signal app, that I existed and that I was attending a security-focused event at the time. And last I heard, Signal was adamantly opposed to removing these not…

They usually oppose that because it helps them build engagement. People discovering each other helps increase app usage.

I don't really like it either but all the other big players do this and it does really help. If signal doesn't it'll be even harder to get decent marketshare.

There's this weird situation where fighting something means adopting some of their tactics even if you don't agree with them, otherwise it's not viable to compete. I think Signal is still better than eg WhatsApp but they are pretty similar in some ways because less privacy-sensitive users expect certain features like auto discovery. And without them it'll always remain a fringe thing.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#90

Post by diggernet »

modeless wrote: post #21

Just got a new phone and migrating Signal was a total disaster. The first thing I did was login to the new phone which is apparently the wrong thing to do because you lose all your old messages and there's no option to import after you login. You have to logout but there is no logout . Gotta uninstall and reinstall, or clear app data. Next I tried the account migration feature which requires using both phones simulta…

Yeah, this is the #1 issue that holds me back from recommending Signal to everyone in my network. It seems like there are just too many ways to end up in an unrecoverable state. Phone died, lost, or stolen? Can't migrate. Phone number changed? Can't restore backup. And so on. Sure would be nice if there was at least a standalone viewer app which would let you view backups even if you can't restore them.
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