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After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

theanarchistlibrary.org

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Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#81

Post by indrax »

zohch wrote: post #66
thanatos519 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No economy, please. The current system created artificial scarcity which kept many people poor and a few people rich. We didn't actually need to consume until the planet was ruined, but we did. Now we are all screwed because real scarcity is returning and we still don't know how to share.

> The current system created artificial scarcity The current system has been responsible for creating actual abundance that has vastly improved the living conditions of the vast majority of people. Scarcity is the default state, not artificial.

Do you think abundance requires the current system?

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#82

Post by KptMarchewa »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #47
freeflight wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur, there's nothing "communistic" about the idea of full employment, if anything it strikes me as something rather capitalistic in its nature: Full employment would mean there's an oversupply of labor, which means labor would be dirt cheap and easily replaceable. That would be the dream for anybody trying to exploit others labor for their own gains, something that's generally seen as a very capitalistic mindset…

>I concur, there's nothing "communistic" about the idea of full employment, if anything it strikes me as something rather capitalistic in its nature: Full employment would mean there's an oversupply of labor, which means labor would be dirt cheap and easily replaceable. There have been nobel prizes on labour participation rate and unemployment rates. The reality is that you have so much population, you have requireme…

>The only thing holding Japan together is the government slaves.

I'm not even going to dispute any other weird claims. But this is such easy to refute by basic statistics.

Japan has ~50k prisoners, for 125m society. USA has 2000k for 325m population. That's 20x bigger rate.

But yes, Japan is the pristine example of socialism, that's why our prime capitalistic USA has only 20x less constitutionally permitted slaves.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#83

Post by sam_lowry_ »

input_sh wrote: post #61
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to read his latest book, but the reviews seem quite promising. Basically he and his co-author challenge the view that we got more intelligent over time, and they do back their conclusions with extensive references.

> I have yet to read his latest book Well for one, it's not out yet, so all we have are reviews. It is available for pre-order and will be on the 9th of November though.

It is already available on LibGen, I heard ;-)

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#84

Post by mojzu »

refurb wrote: post #48

Wasn’t this guys book on bullshit jobs completely debunked? I mean yeah, filing TPS sheets might seem pointless on their own but in the grand scheme of things someone needs to checkboxes. It might be unglamorous work but it necessary for the whole system to function. We talk about productivity gains and why we still work 40 hour weeks and my answer is always this - you’re free to trade those productivity gains for fr…

I think that's an oversimplification, while I'd agree that modern life costs more to sustain in terms of required input from many different people and industries. There's also issues like the productivity/wage gap, general inertia in cultural change, the glorification of overwork, increasing accumulation of wealth by the already incredibly wealthy, how automation is introduced/managed, etc. that means we shouldn't just assume that people must work 40+ hour weeks or everything crumbles.

While some of the potential solutions I've read on this seem incredibly idealistic, I also believe there is probably a path forward where working time could be reduced significantly without the negative effects on technological, scientific or economic advancements that are presumed

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#85

Post by drcongo »

soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

Show me you don't know who David Graeber is without saying you don't know who David Graeber is.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#86

Post by AccountToUse »

jk20 wrote: post #56
refurb wrote: post #48

Wasn’t this guys book on bullshit jobs completely debunked? I mean yeah, filing TPS sheets might seem pointless on their own but in the grand scheme of things someone needs to checkboxes. It might be unglamorous work but it necessary for the whole system to function. We talk about productivity gains and why we still work 40 hour weeks and my answer is always this - you’re free to trade those productivity gains for fr…

How was the book on bullshit jobs debunked? The idea is that many jobs do not contribute to "technology,healthcare,engineering, etc.", rather, salaries and work assignments are regulated to simply force people to spend most of their lives doing meaningless activities as a form of social control. Even Ted Kaczynski talked about "surrogate activities".

Yeah, how can a narrative book like that be "debunked"? The author wasn't making a logical argument. There is no facts and data. It's an emotional and moral argument. Certain jobs contribute nothing to the world and extract a cost on the psyche of the employee.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#87

Post by macintux »

rpmisms wrote: post #60
p2t2p wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we all get a patch of land and grow food for ourselves? A lot of those types would loooove to see lots of people to go back to subsistence. That is a lot of people but not them, they are way too smart for that and they’ll reluctangly agree to take the job of guiding lights for all those that went back to subsistence.

I mean, everyone should know how. Subsistence is incredibly rewarding.

I can't even pull weeds without ending up in bed due to a bad back.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#88

Post by fidesomnes »

soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

wait until you hear the average thought process of female voters on the topic.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#90

Post by mym1990 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #77
zohch wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current system created artificial scarcity The current system has been responsible for creating actual abundance that has vastly improved the living conditions of the vast majority of people. Scarcity is the default state, not artificial.

The 'vast majority of people' have not had their lives improved. They were, and still are, given a Squid Game-esque choice to either participate in a status-seeking game to destroy your health for someone else's comfort or exist in total squalor, dependent on other people who are destroying their health so that you can exist on the crumbs they throw your way. Capitalism seems more or less benign in affluent nations w…

Your first sentence is absolutely wrong and your second sentence is absolutely absurd. If you want to have a real conversation, maybe keep out the latest thing you watched on Netflix as a source of your bias.

Global living conditions across multiple facets have DRAMATICALLY improved in the last 200 years. No, I am not talking about the last 10 or 20 years, I mean over many generations: https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-condit...

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