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Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

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Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#81

I wonder how fire resistant hardened wood is. I can imagine cities like Chicago having a hard time to use wood in commercial buildings with history launch as "The Great Chicago Fire"[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

From what I've read, they are pretty fire resistant because they are dense and so will char and burn slowly. There have been a couple articles on here in the last couple years about "wooden skyscrapers" and they have made that argument.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#82
post #70

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

>You can't grow more iron ore

Steel is perfectly recyclable, but even then there is plenty of iron on earth. We won't be running out of iron.

Edit: Of course, steel is just a name of class of alloys - some of the steel types have a rarer elements like Mo, Ti, V...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#83
post #70

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

Considering that the graphic references basswood, my guess is that the primary component of the final product, by mass, is not wood.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#84
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to mine in space.

Good luck finding an oil rich asteroid. Or an asteroid with lush virgin hardwood forests. As far as I know there isn't a shortage of iron ore. This hardened wood is solving a problem that we don't have yet.

I believe one of the problems it solves is that steel has a tendency to erode over time. Hence major infrastructure failures. If structural elements can be made to the same strength as steel, using HW, which will not erode at the same pace of steel, than the expected lifetime of a structure increases and that is solving a real problem.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#85
post #71

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Steel is amazing - and as a result we use it in all kinds of places where its properties aren't fully utilized. Aluminum has been growing into that role of "steel alternative", but there's still room for other alternatives.

you just reminded me of the marvelous magnesium NeXT cases, before Apple's alumin[i]um became popular.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#86
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steel is amazing - and as a result we use it in all kinds of places where its properties aren't fully utilized. Aluminum has been growing into that role of "steel alternative", but there's still room for other alternatives.

you just reminded me of the marvelous magnesium NeXT cases, before Apple's alumin[i]um became popular.

magnesium is sort of a more expensive version of al.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#87
post #73
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention all that carbon released when the wood decomposes - no ?

No expert here but I believe it depends on how it decomposes. If wood rots at the surface, my understanding is more carbon is released into the atmosphere but if it is buried or decomposed using fungi or soil microbes, more carbon is captured into the soil. Forests have a lot of decaying and decomposing deadfall wood but still seem to be a carbon sink so it may be a layering thing...

That's the reason you use wood chips and bark for mulch in a garden; to add carbon to the soil.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

The biggest problem with CLT and other engineered wood beams is that it fails extremely quickly in a fire. I've heard firefighters talk about how their departments are considering scaling back entries on newer homes because those beams can fail so early in a fire when the binder fails.

This study disagrees with your claims. https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2012/fpl_2012_dagenais...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#89
post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

Curious about your opinion on bamboo products. I assume you're referring to modern bamboo desks, shelves, and other items that are made from Chinese bamboo and made in China. They typically slice the bamboo grass pieces into ~8 sections, then use planing machines to create planks※. These are then pressed and glued together to make products. These products are then shipped overseas using the same methods as other prod…

Some good photos of the process here[1]. The figure that's generally quoted for the time it takes for a mature timber bamboo culm to grow from a shoot to ~20m to be harvested is 3-5yr. Obviously each one is small compared to a large tree, but a stand of bamboo can produce a lot.

1; https://www.bambooimport.com/en/how-is-bamboo-lumber-made

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#90
post #70

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

Wood also requires heavy equipment to cut, mill, process. Not to mention, it needs a heck of a lot of land area. In addition to whatever process is involved in "hardening" this wood.

Plus, steel is entirely recyclable. And it has some natural properties that make is relatively easy to recycle. It can be sorted with magnets, and it has a higher melting point than most impurities.

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