Colin Powell has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Colin Powell has died

#81

Post by marricks » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

betterunix2 wrote: post #66

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A complete lie which he was fully aware of. > At one point, he became so angry at the lack of adequate sourcing to intelligence claims that he declared: "I'm not reading this. This is bullshit," according to the magazine. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/02/usa.iraq He did read it in full, of course. And he brought the fake vial of Iraqi anthrax to the presentation, too. A known unknown of known bullshit, I…

Is that really the standard for calling someone a war criminal? National leaders always lie about the reasons for war, whether they are the attackers or the defenders. No doubt that Colin Powell did the wrong thing when he lied to the UN, but let's not throw around the term "war criminal" to mean "someone who did the wrong thing."

His lies at the time legitimized a war where hundreds of thousands of people died.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#82

Post by pbourke » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #16

disneygibson wrote: post #11

Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Instead, he didn’t. What a waste of an exceptional career.

No one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well. When was the last time you heard anything from Phil Donahue?

> No one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well.

Would that include President Obama?

Re: Colin Powell has died

#83

Post by 015a » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #69

Original title: "Colin Powell, military leader and first Black US secretary of state, dies after complications from Covid-19" From the article: > "We have lost a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather and a great American," they said, noting he was fully vaccinated. The ongoing high profile, fatal breakthrough Covid-19 cases should not be underestimated. They are to be expected statistically, but taken in…

I hate that phrase: "They are to be expected"

I expect better. I expect a vaccine that would have saved Colin's life.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#84

Post by asteroidbelt » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #56

asteroidbelt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are talking about Iraq, these people were not exactly living happy lives under Saddam rule. Colin lie is inexcusable, but Iraq war was a good thing for Iraq. Net zero at least. (Feel free to downvote, downvote is used for disagreement on HN these days.)

My understanding is that the entire area is just brutal in general and Saddam was actually the least evil solution available at the time. He held it together through brutality, but he still apparently held it together, and now look at it.

People need to live free, not to be held slaves under the least evil dictator. I’m sorry for all commenters here who value pity lives more than freedom.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#85

Post by SantalBlush » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

AndrewBissell wrote: post #29

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well. When was the last time you heard anything from Phil Donahue?

Are we evaluating the wisdom and virtue of people's actions based on whether they keep them in the limelight? Just because your protest won't necessarily win out doesn't mean you shouldn't mount one.

I swear most of HN barely reads a thread before firing off some half-baked retort. The comment above about Phil Donahue was a reply to this:

>Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world.

Nowhere in the above reply about Donahue was there an implication that people shouldn't protest, or that the virtue of their actions are based on whether those actions keep them in the limelight.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#86

Post by purple_ferret » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #11

Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Instead, he didn’t. What a waste of an exceptional career.

How well hailed is Russ Feingold? Got 'rewarded' by being voted out of office and forgotten.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#87

Post by bluedevil2k » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

uncletaco wrote: post #58

bluedevil2k wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either Did you see any other black men doing the same thing?

The answer is yes but of course none were as famous or went as far as Powell.

So…then the answer is “no”

Re: Colin Powell has died

#88

Post by betterunix2 » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #11

Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Instead, he didn’t. What a waste of an exceptional career.

He would have faded into obscurity and we would all be talking about how terrible his replacement was for lying to the UN.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#89

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #13

hawk_ wrote: post #8

I won't understand respect for someone who was reponsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of people because he lied.

I’m no fan of Colin Powell but IMO the responsibility for those deaths does not fall on him specifically. The US was going to war in Iraq with or without the UN’s backing, everything Powell did was window dressing. False, deceitful and criminal window dressing, but still.

If the standard is that you have to be fully responsible for the war to carry any responsibility for the war, than nobody is responsible. No wonder no one was punished except Judith Miller, lightly.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#90

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

asteroidbelt wrote: post #84

pmarreck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the entire area is just brutal in general and Saddam was actually the least evil solution available at the time. He held it together through brutality, but he still apparently held it together, and now look at it.

People need to live free, not to be held slaves under the least evil dictator. I’m sorry for all commenters here who value pity lives more than freedom.

Do they "live free" now?