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Balls

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Re: Balls

#81

Post by tomlin »

divtxt wrote: post #26

The problem with Gruber is that he'll write a fair analysis only as long as the fair analysis favors Apple. This means we won't get a fair analysis from him on things like the patent war and app store high-handedness. Sometimes he'll do a great piece. Sometimes you have to sift carefully for the bias. Then there are articles like this - insults, lies and condescension: - Lyons has always been an ass, but when did he…

Slightly off-topic but one thing I've noticed in particular, is the silliness Gruber spews when the narrative of HTML5 vs. Flash comes about. Gruber treads lightly on the open source aspect of the conversation, but goes full-bore on the battery life commentary.

Battery life is something Gruber likes to talk about a lot, because the open conversation would point arrows right back at him (and Apple). Flash takes battery life, but be fair. It's true to say I couldn't watch movies in Flash for 6 hours, but I can't play Angry Birds for 4 hours, either. In fact, I don't think there is any application I have on my iPhone that would run for 8, 10, 12 hours (screen on), or whatever ridiculous milestone Flash should single-handedly reach. I think the best I've gotten was 6 hours (screen on) of Internet radio.

Re: Balls

#82

Post by saturdaysaint »

xefer wrote: post #74
divtxt wrote: post #26

The problem with Gruber is that he'll write a fair analysis only as long as the fair analysis favors Apple. This means we won't get a fair analysis from him on things like the patent war and app store high-handedness. Sometimes he'll do a great piece. Sometimes you have to sift carefully for the bias. Then there are articles like this - insults, lies and condescension: - Lyons has always been an ass, but when did he…

Gruber is part of an interesting phenomenon that has emerged over the past few years: supporting companies (and reviling their 'opponents') with the same passion that people normally reserve for sports teams.

This is not a recent trend. People have been devoted to Apple since their founding. Comparing this devotion/passion to sports teams is probably understating it - Wired's feature on Apple in 1997 had a picture of the Apple logo with a crown of thorns on the cover. Going further back, families and pundits had similar devotion to car and cigarette companies.

Re: Balls

#83

Post by technoslut »

socratic wrote: post #28
ellyagg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you know, it's easy to get backslapped on pro-Google hn by dissing Gruber, but why not just respond to his analysis instead. Gruber seems to be right an awful lot for someone so casually vilified. For example, he took a lot of flack here for defending Apple's move to leave flash out of mobile safari. I think enough time has passed to make clear that he and Apple were right. The anti-Gruber hate looks more like sou…

Is Gruber right, or has Apple made all the right moves since about 2003? I think the main complaint by people who see Gruber pieces on HN all the time is that they argue that he's just an Apple pundit and/or apologist. Another way of asking this question is, can you name three times that Apple and Gruber differed, but Gruber was in the right?

>Another way of asking this question is, can you name three times that Apple and Gruber differed, but Gruber was in the right?

I can.

1. The App Store approval nonsense. 2. The missing white iPhone. 3. Software patents. 4. He's also picked on design choices of Apple with iBooks and believes the Kindle app is better.

These have all occurred within the past year alone. It's fine there are those that disagree with Gruber but I find it best to attack on the merit of what is written and not his bias. It is the easy way out.

Re: Balls

#84

Post by saturdaysaint »

watty wrote: post #79
roc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by 'past few years' you mean 'past 20-30 years', then I agree.

I'm too young to refute your point but can you give examples of pre-internet companies that had fan bases as rabid as Apple and Android?

There weren't blogs to document it, but you'd see many of the same arguments over videogame consoles, computer platforms, car manufacturers, clothiers, sports teams, warlords, philosophers, religions ;). Identifying with a side in a large competition falls under the category of basic human behavior.

Re: Balls

#85

Post by hvs »

tomlin wrote: post #81
divtxt wrote: post #26

The problem with Gruber is that he'll write a fair analysis only as long as the fair analysis favors Apple. This means we won't get a fair analysis from him on things like the patent war and app store high-handedness. Sometimes he'll do a great piece. Sometimes you have to sift carefully for the bias. Then there are articles like this - insults, lies and condescension: - Lyons has always been an ass, but when did he…

Slightly off-topic but one thing I've noticed in particular, is the silliness Gruber spews when the narrative of HTML5 vs. Flash comes about. Gruber treads lightly on the open source aspect of the conversation, but goes full-bore on the battery life commentary. Battery life is something Gruber likes to talk about a lot, because the open conversation would point arrows right back at him (and Apple). Flash takes batter…

I think Gruber has always been fairly upfront that openness of the platform has never been a big concern of his. I don't usually read his posts, but he usually wears his biases on his sleeve (even if he doesn't always draw attention to them).

Re: Balls

#86

Post by amazingman »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #30
ellyagg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you know, it's easy to get backslapped on pro-Google hn by dissing Gruber, but why not just respond to his analysis instead. Gruber seems to be right an awful lot for someone so casually vilified. For example, he took a lot of flack here for defending Apple's move to leave flash out of mobile safari. I think enough time has passed to make clear that he and Apple were right. The anti-Gruber hate looks more like sou…

> For example, he took a lot of flack here for defending Apple's move to leave flash out of mobile safari It's been much more than a year since Steve's blog post about how Flash is unneeded because of HTML5, and I am still waiting for the improvements in Safari so that Flash like functionality can be used in web pages. http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ I am not holding my breath though, Apple wants to p…

Why can't I put a web app in the app drawer on my Android phone and run it as an app without the browser chrome? For a vendor who allegedly does not care about the web and only cares about platform lock-in, Apple sure does spend a lot of resources on Webkit and making mobile Safari a best-in-class experience.

Re: Balls

#87

Post by [deleted] »

blinkingled wrote: post #19

Gruber claims that Apple and Microsoft probably are feeling great that Google had to shell out $12.5B to acquire a failing company like Motorola along with its 'misguided' management and rapidly declining sales. So what is wrong with that loaded closing statement? Well lots. Firstly he admits the patents part was a good move for Google and the Android platform. He also does math and says they bought 3x Nortel patents…

[deleted]

Re: Balls

#88

Post by saturdaysaint »

blinkingled wrote: post #19

Gruber claims that Apple and Microsoft probably are feeling great that Google had to shell out $12.5B to acquire a failing company like Motorola along with its 'misguided' management and rapidly declining sales. So what is wrong with that loaded closing statement? Well lots. Firstly he admits the patents part was a good move for Google and the Android platform. He also does math and says they bought 3x Nortel patents…

Patents vary widely in quality and thus in their ability to affect the competitive dynamics here. The consensus seems to be that Motorola's portfolio was good enough to bully other Android makers (which they'd publically threatened to do) but not good enough to deter Apple/MS from suing them (which they are!). If that's really accurate, then Gruber's negative characterization is correct - it looks like the Moto purchase might have been needed to keep Android in the game at all, not to advance its position.

Re: Balls

#89

Post by amazingman »

icarus_drowning wrote: post #22
ellyagg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the story carefully and completely, you'll note that he agrees that this very well may have been the right move, but right relative to the weak position that he has been arguing Google was in. He's by no means being inconsistent to say that their improved position is still weak.

I appreciate the advice, but I did read the article carefully and completely. My original comment, read carefully, has far more to do with the nuances of Gruber beginning to turn his arguments now that he can't bray night and day about how very threatened Google is by the combined patent portfolios of it's enemies.

Well...yeah. As the facts change, do you not expect the outlook to change as well? This widespread tendency to hold others with whom one might disagree to an impossible standard is getting tiresome.

Re: Balls

#90

Post by ZitchDog »

watty wrote: post #79
roc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by 'past few years' you mean 'past 20-30 years', then I agree.

I'm too young to refute your point but can you give examples of pre-internet companies that had fan bases as rabid as Apple and Android?

Chevy vs Ford
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