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PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

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Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#81

Post by imtringued »

kevingadd wrote: post #52
bradwood wrote: post #43

Time to put all this on crypto rails and disrupt these bastards out of existence.

Will that work particularly well since PayPal also adopted crypto? They have the money and resources to out-maneuver any weaker attempts at using crypto to displace them.

I assume that Lightning Network will devolve into federated payment infrastructure rather than something that is fully decentralized. It would be closer to email where providers share a protocol and interoperate by default with each other. In that sense, Paypal wouldn't compete vs crypto but with dozens of payment companies.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#82

Post by Symbiote »

axelthegerman wrote: post #67
cm2187 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is not so much more expensive in the US, not the least because this is dwarfed by the difference in VAT. Not that I am in any way in favour of the current duopoly in credit card payments.

It's not about more or less expensive or higher/lower VAT. It's about whether or not we should pay a 3+% cut to the payment processor when there are clearly other options. Nothing in this world is free, question is who pays for it and how much. Of course US credit card transaction fees also fund cashback and other reward systems

UK credit card transactions also used to fund cashback and rewards, but when EU rules from a few years ago limited the fees all that ended. Society no longer funds rich/middle-income people's air miles, which is an improvement.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#83

Post by the__alchemist »

systemvoltage wrote: post #29

I run a SMB with $1.2M in transactions per year through various online storefronts. Paypal/Stripe are the most common forms of payment, but to my surprise the split is 70%(Paypal), 30%(Stripe including Apple/GPay/Alipay). We see a consistent behavior that perhaps incidates Paypal is far easier to use than Stripe. I feel like the slightest friction in the choice between payment options and it will win. Paypal offers t…

I've noticed the same. If you have CCs stored in the browser, I find the Stripe flow easier on my website, and it loads very fast, while the PayPal widget is the slowest-loading part of the website.

I see about a 70/30 percent split, as you do, for Paypal/Stripe.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#84

Post by scrollaway »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

I like iDEAL. My bank is dutch (bunq) although i live in Belgium, i got to use it a few times.

I don't know if it's really easier than cards though given all the tools that are available for cards now, from auto fill to contactless.

To be honest, google pay / apple pay are just so damn convenient. Being able to just hold my phone and have payment happen in a second is fantastic. And here in Europe let's not forget visa and mc fees are capped at something like .7%.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#85

Post by Dylan16807 »

saurik wrote: post #56
Dylan16807 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees#statemen... https://www.paypal.com/gf/smarthelp/article/how-can-i-update... The first page says it's 5% + 0.09 now, though. Edit: Oh, fixed the first link, the page was using javascript to break anchor links for some reason. Also that second page only exists on some versions of the site.

I am not 100% sure I am doing the math correctly, but I think--with the other changes today to the normal pricing--that means the boundary at which you should use this pricing tier has moved from ~$12 to ~$29?!

Something like that. $27 if it's 9 cents now. The 25 cent gap has grown to 40, and the 2.1% rate difference has shrunk to 1.5%

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#86

Post by konschubert »

Paypal is a pretty scammy service also on the consumer side.

When paying in foreign currency, they try to trick users into using their "conversion" service, which helpfully charges a bit more money to your credit card than you would have paid without their "assistance".

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#87

Post by retrobox »

systemvoltage wrote: post #29

I run a SMB with $1.2M in transactions per year through various online storefronts. Paypal/Stripe are the most common forms of payment, but to my surprise the split is 70%(Paypal), 30%(Stripe including Apple/GPay/Alipay). We see a consistent behavior that perhaps incidates Paypal is far easier to use than Stripe. I feel like the slightest friction in the choice between payment options and it will win. Paypal offers t…

I wonder if PayPal’s consumer protection is also part of the appeal?

I had to use the dispute resolution once. The merchant become unresponsive to all other means. PayPal ruled in my favour and provided a refund.

I’m not sure a credit card chargeback would have been as simple.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#88

Post by 2ion »

brnt wrote: post #12
londons_explore wrote: post #6

It amazes me that despite not really modifying the core PayPal service for 10+ years, they are still a market leader. Parts of their business don't have much network effect, and competitors could totally rebuild the tech and eat away at the market share... Yet somehow that hasn't happened.

All this, and all that other Silicon Valley financial infra, because direct bank tranfers are (presumably?) not known or difficult or impossible. From my northwestern European perspective, it's weird this straightforward solution that we've had since, well, the fifties? is overlooked.

- direct bank transfer = debit. When you send money using SEPA you have no right at all to charge the money back, as it's always a voluntary authorized transaction. The marchant got you by the balls.

- In DE at there are fast "instant" payments called paydirekt or giropay, which make "checkout" using your giro account fast and simply. However, it's debit again. Balls grabbed.

- Your checking account usually receives your salary, and you have to monitor it for fraudulent charges, which can just "happen" if somebody knows your IBAN. Therefore, entering my IBAN on any site that is not 100% trustworthy and liable is a no-go.

Debit is really bad for buyer's protection, and even when using "reverse debit" which means authorizing a party to draw money from your giro account, you in theory can reverse such charges, but the reversals are handled by your home bank and in many cases the reversal is getting rejected based on intransparent reasons or takes _very_ long. Customer service is simply bad at banks.

So what about credit card processors like Stripe?

- German credit cards are issued largely by banks in the visa/mastercard system. That means the banks themselves are responsible for accepting or rejecting chargebacks. Bad customer service by banks again, very high burden of proof => high chance of chargeback not going through, paper tiger wars.

- Most merchants have really shitty payment gateways in place or even store credit card information on site. The smaller the business, the shittier the storage and you can basically guarantee that data protection is effectively handled at most SMB like trash. => I do not enter my main credit card info on random sites.

So what does Paypal offer?

- almost no questions asked chargeback of any amount if you return the goods (proof = shipping label) - masks credit card number IBAN and other information from merchant

That's it. I'm ok paying small amounts using direct debit but expensive purchases, like electronics, gardening equipment and so on, go through either (a) Amazon w/ its no-fullshit refund policy (b) a merchant offering PayPal. PayPal is expensive, but customer friendly. Germany has _no_ true competitor to PayPal's service except notarized escrow, and I don't want to lawyer up just to buy a lawn mower.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#89

Post by xdfgh1112 »

konschubert wrote: post #86

Paypal is a pretty scammy service also on the consumer side. When paying in foreign currency, they try to trick users into using their "conversion" service, which helpfully charges a bit more money to your credit card than you would have paid without their "assistance".

A very common trap when using your credit card abroad too. If you don't insist on being charged in the local currency the payment processor may "convert" it for you with a worse rate and pocket the difference.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#90

Post by Reason077 »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

Merchant fees for both debit and credit cards are significantly lower in all EU countries (and UK), compared to the US, thanks to the interchange fee regulation (IFR) that caps interchange fees at 0.2% for debit card and 0.3% for credit cards.

This translates into much lower merchant fees. Even a tiny startup with zero transaction volume can easily get less than 2% on their physical card transactions (using something like iZettle or SumUp). Big retailers will be paying well under 1%.

Also, merchants are banned from adding surcharges for debit and credit card transactions in the EU & UK.

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