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Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

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Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#81
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative market would create pressure on Apple. If Netflix tells the App store to go screw themselves and lists on a different store, then the App Store gets that much less traffic and either has to compete or lose out.

From a consumer point of view, this is terrible.

No, it increases choice and lowers costs for the consumer. If you see switching app stores a "cost" because it's less practical, you most likely would still be able to use your store of choice, but you might need to pay more.

I don't see Netflix pulling out of the App Store if there alternatives. Right now, this is the only thing they can do to retaliate.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#82
post #71
post #60

The problem here are not the special deals, saurik commented he cut special deals in the Cydia store occasionally the last time this topic came up. The problem is that there is no alternative to Apple when it comes to publishing software and content on the iPhone and that makes these kind of deals unfair.

This is naive, IMO. Even if the app store was run differently, say allowing a competing way of installing apps, Apple still have plenty of fungible power to make such deals. You might have ticked a box to make it technically fair, for some definition of, but that would probably be just cosmetic. IE, app store would still represent most revenue and everyone is in the same position but a few geeks. The "platform game"…

> The "platform game" establishes market power, where buyers and sellers need to go through you.

So we have to get a law against a "monopoly that arises after you've bought a product".

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#83
I am pretty sure I read something similar before. Probably from Benedict Evans or somewhere else.

I think the most important issue from these email isn't the lack of Alternative App Store, IAP, or 70/30 split. It is that Apple Execs has Zero understanding of how other business works especially with respect to Internet or Software Services. They continue to think Netflix as a physical product ( As they often like to compare Physical Software distribution before App Store ) that is being continuously sold with recurring revenue like staples or other commodities.

Not to mention Netflix knew Apple were doing AppleTV+. Directly competing with them. I love how Apple complains about testing IAP as not OK as in we deserve our 15%.

So Reed made the decision to stop IAP. And reading all the emails from Apple execs, Eddy Cue often seems to be the culprit.

Steve From D5

>You know, because Woz and I started the company based on doing the whole banana, we weren’t so good at partnering with people. And, you know, acatually, the funny thing is, Microsoft’s one of the few companies we were able to partner with that actually worked for both companies. And we weren’t so good at that, where Bill and Microsoft were really good at it because they didn’t make the whole thing in the early days and they learned how to partner with people really well.

And I think if Apple could have had a little more of that in its DNA, it would have served it extremely well. And I don’t think Apple learned that until, you know, a few decades later.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always use other software as well. The only reason HN believe Apple to be a monopoly is because the product they purchased does what it was advertised to do - security through chain of trust via an good-but-imperfect organization. It's only a legal monopoly if the courts say so, and the judge in Epic v Apple defined the market in a way that actually made sense - they aren't a monopoly on mobile game purchases…

Apple as of years ago was capturing over 90% of all the margin in smartphones ( https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/apple-captures-record-91-per... ). I'd argue that represents a monopoly in paid smartphones. Our option as users is either buy a phone from Apple or accept what is essentially a free service from Google (you have to buy the hardware)... who are giving that away to solidify their search monopoly. This to me…

90% of global smartphone profits does not mean 90% of devices in the market. It's been demonstrated for years that iPhone users are much more likely to pay for apps. It's possible to be extremely profitable and not have a monopoly on the market because the iPhone isn't just an appliance but a Veblen good as well.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#85

Of note, it appears that Netflix’s gripe wasn’t so much about the 70/30 split as colloquially observed, but that Apple’s IAP saw more “voluntary churn” than Netflix’s direct purchase. Am I reading that right? Would this churn discrepancy apply to other services besides Netflix (like developer tools, access to smaller content libraries, etc)? Finally, what did Apple do to address their “voluntary churn” problem?

In other words, Netflix is harder to cancel directly than through Apple's subscription UI. As is the case for virtually every dark pattern subscription (most of them) when not through Apple. This isn't a problem, it's a benefit -- from customer point of view. Apple makes a customer-friendly rather than seller friendly subscription UI, the reason I won't subscribe to things any more except through Apple. It's genuinel…

It’s way easier to cancel Netflix via Netflix than the App Store though.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#86
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to Congress is a crime (distinct from perjury), but it's unusual for anyone to be tried for/convicted of it though. Michael Cohen, Trump's lawyer, is a (rare) recent example.

Cook was under oath, no? So as per my understanding, it is perjury on top of lying to congress. I am, however, not a lawyer.

Right, lying to Congress is a crime regardless of whether you're under oath, but if you're under oath and lie, it's both.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, Netflix is harder to cancel directly than through Apple's subscription UI. As is the case for virtually every dark pattern subscription (most of them) when not through Apple. This isn't a problem, it's a benefit -- from customer point of view. Apple makes a customer-friendly rather than seller friendly subscription UI, the reason I won't subscribe to things any more except through Apple. It's genuinel…

Netflix is very easy to cancel, though? There's a big honking "cancel membership" button on the top level account settings page. It's actually more prominent than other entries on the page. http://imgur.com/a/09XZ9jb Also very easy to change your plan level up or down.

Yeah, I would guess that the important difference is that Apple emails a receipt for all subscriptions every month, making it much less likely that someone forgets about their subscription when they no longer regularly use it.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#88
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The device performs involuntary "CSAM" scans (where "CSAM" means whatever any given nation's intelligence apparatus doesn't like). If you don't believe it, just look to what they've done to their customers in non-US regions. Or that Mac phones home about what programs you run. App review is meant to enforce Apple's payment rules as much as anything. They don't and can't catch everything. Strong sandboxing, granular p…

> The device performs involuntary "CSAM" scans It does not.

> It does not.

Yet.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#89
post #83

I am pretty sure I read something similar before. Probably from Benedict Evans or somewhere else. I think the most important issue from these email isn't the lack of Alternative App Store, IAP, or 70/30 split. It is that Apple Execs has Zero understanding of how other business works especially with respect to Internet or Software Services. They continue to think Netflix as a physical product ( As they often like to c…

> They continue to think Netflix as a physical product ( As they often like to compare Physical Software distribution before App Store )

Framing the relationship this way gives Apple more power and control, so that's what they're doing, no surprise. They're too smart to be merely misunderstanding such things.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#90

Tech companies that reach monopoly scale (like Apple, Facebook, Amazon) should have to disclose all their agreements and honor a "Most Favored Nation" clause giving all companies the same pricing and access as the best negotiated agreement with any one company. This is the most reasonable way I can think of without breaking them up to prevent them picking winners and losers as new opportunities emerge. If you have a…

Better plan? How about we stop letting tech companies reach "monopoly scale"?

The market is globally competitive. How would expect tech companies to compete if you have policies that continuously place them at a disadvantage against global competitors.

Tariffs don't solve these problems either. OP's suggestion is pretty decent idea relative to playing wack a mole with price fixing while trying to make sure your country's corps can compete on the global market.

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