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‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

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Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#81

Post by dogma1138 »

kristofferR wrote: post #34
foob wrote: post #13

There's a great blog post by David Simon on the conversion of The Wire from 4:3 to 16:9 [1]. It goes into a lot of depth about some of the trade-offs and considerations as well as the lack of communication from HBO. Unfortunately, the video examples don't seem to work anymore. I can't help but wonder if HBO sent YouTube a DMCA takedown for David Simon's clips from the post (or they got taken down automatically). It's…

It's not really the same issue though, with The Wire they had access to original master footage that had a wider view, so the 16:9 versions didn't crop into the 4:3 footage, it just added footage on the sides of the image. https://i.imgur.com/SK1sPD9.jpg

In some shots yes but not in all, in others the extra wide shot could not be used because production elements could be seen or it drastically changed the framing of the scene so cropping was also extensively used.

You can see this in many other early 2000’s shows like TWW.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#82

Post by tzs »

iso1210 wrote: post #3

This was the case with Simpsons when it came onto Disney Plus - they took the 4:3 and didn't just blow it to 14:9, but 16:9 -- throwing away a quarter of the original image. There's now an option to show the original aspect ratio, I didn't discover it for a long time though. Amazon prime on my phone blows up 16:9 material too, chopping off the top and bottom to fit the wider aspect ratio, unless you're careful to 'zo…

Another annoying way to 16:9ify The Simpsons is how it was done for broadcast/cable syndication originally. They did some kind of nonlinear scaling where the aspect ratio was unchanged at the center and increased as you moved to the sides.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#83

Post by Brian_K_White »

navjack27 wrote: post #71
pessimizer wrote: post #22

I have to believe that this has been rigorously tested, and that a lot of viewers are lost when they see black bars on their television. I remember back in 4:3 when it was far harder to find letterboxed VHS tapes, and when filmmakers often would make sure their scope movies also worked in 4:3 by filming in 4:3 and cropping to scope (with the exception of a few hundred accidentally revealed boom mics.) I have to belie…

The whole concept of black bars has always confused me. I know what they are I know what people generally accept the concept of what they are. but they aren't actually what they are. There are no black bars. The content is the size that it is and it's just stretching undistorted to your screen. It's not adding black bars. You're just not using parts of your screen because you shouldn't be using those parts of your sc…

This. In another comment I tried to equate it with a painting on a wall. A painting never fills the wall. The painting is whatever size and shape it is, and that's that.

Maybe the problem is a tv looks like a frame, and frames are made custom to fit the painting, and so any discrepency looks bad.

But now that tv's are both huge, and are featureless panels with little to no interesting frame let alone actual furniture quality cabinetry, maybe only now they can start to be seen as mini walls where it would actually be kind of pathological to require that every pixel always be lit just because they exist.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#84

Post by ryandrake »

iso1210 wrote: post #3

This was the case with Simpsons when it came onto Disney Plus - they took the 4:3 and didn't just blow it to 14:9, but 16:9 -- throwing away a quarter of the original image. There's now an option to show the original aspect ratio, I didn't discover it for a long time though. Amazon prime on my phone blows up 16:9 material too, chopping off the top and bottom to fit the wider aspect ratio, unless you're careful to 'zo…

One thing the article doesn't seem to address is why these cuts are happening? What motivates a streaming company to go out of its way to re-shape the aspect ratio of a film? It is totally possible to re-digitize film without changing aspect ratio. Look at the re-done Star Trek TNG Blu-rays, they're amazing and with the original aspect ratio preserved. All widescreen TVs I know will play 4:3 content perfectly fine. Is there some technical reason that a 4:3 video can't be streamed?

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#85

Post by conradfr »

jefftk wrote: post #18
tofukid wrote: post #12

Almost all TVs have an option to zoom to fit 4:3, so there’s no need to stream a cropped version. At least they should provide an option to view the original.

Done well, aspect ratio conversion involves editorial decisions: what part of the frame is most important to preserve? This isn't something TVs can automate. (Not advocating for cropping, though)

Yes, watching Seinfeld on Netflix, the zoom-ins, the framing. I was enchanted.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#86

Post by bananamerica »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #78
bananamerica wrote: post #47

Longtime fan since the 90s. Have rewatched in 16:9 many times. I don't care. Seinfeld is just not this kind of show.

It's a show about nothing, watched by people who choose to watch a show about nothing. Such people indeed would not care.

I believe that you're joking, but let me cease this opportunity to address a common misconception. Seinfeld is obviously not about nothing, it's about the minutiae of culture and social interactions that was often ignored on shows from that era. The other reason why it's "about nothing" is that, unlike Cheers from example, the characters don't have real arcs, they don't become better human beings on any level. They never learn, never transcend, remaining pretty much the same selfish assholes they started as. There are no moral lessons. From that perspective, Seinfeld is about "nothing", but a nothing that is actually full of fun little obsessions of no consequence.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#87

Post by anaganisk »

Asooka wrote: post #52
krispyfi wrote: post #20

It's times like this that I think that piracy is the only way to preserve pop culture.

I sometimes dream of there being a license to pirate, kind of like paying for Netflix. You'd pay 15 bucks per month to an agency that monitors the well known trackers and divides the proceeds accordingly. Or maybe a cloud service where scene releases can be uploaded and people can pay for monthly access. Just anything that lets the copyright holders to have their pound of flesh, while allowing the people actually inv…

There was something that was known as DVD or BluRay, Digital download release for the same. Do u think having available to download is something which is not possible in this age? Studios and companies just went full greedy, they just want to milk you constantly for every time u watch it.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#88

Post by gandalfian »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #79
gandalfian wrote: post #25

First world irritation - when I finally got a 16:9 television they started making TV shows even wider so still letterboxed! Why? Grrr.

Why do you even care that there are letterboxes? Why must every pixel be lit just because they exist? Think of the screen like a wall in your house. You hang a painting on the wall. "Why do they make paintings in all these random sizes instead of filling this wall edge egde? Why? Grrr."

Hmm well you can rationalize these things either way but in the end I find it nicer to have the tv filled edge to edge. I just do.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#89

Post by colejohnson66 »

ryandrake wrote: post #84
iso1210 wrote: post #3

This was the case with Simpsons when it came onto Disney Plus - they took the 4:3 and didn't just blow it to 14:9, but 16:9 -- throwing away a quarter of the original image. There's now an option to show the original aspect ratio, I didn't discover it for a long time though. Amazon prime on my phone blows up 16:9 material too, chopping off the top and bottom to fit the wider aspect ratio, unless you're careful to 'zo…

One thing the article doesn't seem to address is why these cuts are happening? What motivates a streaming company to go out of its way to re-shape the aspect ratio of a film? It is totally possible to re-digitize film without changing aspect ratio. Look at the re-done Star Trek TNG Blu-rays, they're amazing and with the original aspect ratio preserved. All widescreen TVs I know will play 4:3 content perfectly fine. I…

People probably don’t like the black bars. Or at least the people in charge think so.

Re: ‘Seinfeld’ fans upset that Netflix’s aspect ratio cuts out jokes

#90

Post by dada78641 »

If I had done directing or camera work during the 4:3 era and saw my work cropped to 16:9, I'd probably be furious. A lot of thought goes into framing a shot just right, making sure it has the right balance and composition.

Even in cases where nothing too important goes missing, cropped video just looks really off. Oftentimes you'll see the tops of heads cut off at the top of the frame, or small details just on the verge of being visible. If something is framed just off center, the cropped version will show it very off center.

Just look at this shot, for example: https://imgur.com/KKiMbWP - nothing is missing, but the right character's bottom half is completely out of frame and it just looks incredibly weird. The floor also is totally invisible so you lose your sense of grounding.

It's just a complete lack of respect for the hard work that went into creating these shows.

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