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Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

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Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#81

Post by 908B64B197 »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #20

Nobody knows how good, or bad, they have it until they see how someone else lives. Isn't that explanation enough? Yes, the change is because of social media, and everything else that's made other peoples lives' more visible.

That's part of what inspired the Arab Spring!

"Why do they have the right to political opinions over there but here the warlord will jail me?"

"Look, the local warlord just burned down this man's shop because they don't like his ethnicity"

"How come westerners can just go to school and we can't?"

There's a reason China, Iran and Cuba are clamping hard against the Internet...

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#82

Post by marcellus23 »

thrav wrote: post #74
marcellus23 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you observed a difference between one set of people you know and another, and you're expanding that to the entire countries those people are from?

Did I make claims about entire countries, or did I readily admit that I was only sharing my own small taste, explicitly stating that it shouldn’t be sufficient for broad conclusions?

You tell me:

> In America, people proudly declare shopping a hobby.

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#83

Post by atdrummond »

RNCTX wrote: post #67
bawolff wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That describes how a lot of research gets done. Its not just fb, oil companies are notorious for that sort of thing as well.

An apt comparison, considering Steven Donziger is in court again this week, after having basically endured a corporate-funded prosecution that has drawn on for almost three years, for the crime of winning a civil pollution suit against Chevron. The children of every fed-level elected and appointed official in his jurisdiction and/or related to the case (house of reps member, both senators, judge, prosecutor) work for…

Where can I read more about this?

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#84

Post by vosper »

belorn wrote: post #69
freewilly1040 wrote: post #40

I see a lot defending the researchers involved, talking about how great they are and how none of Facebook’s misdeeds are their fault. At some point though, when data is consistently not shared, and any findings not favorable to the company are buried, what these people do is not “research”. It’s propaganda. They serve to give Facebook the appearance of valuing neutral judgement on the impact of their platform, and to…

Which comment are you referring to? The only comment here on HN that seems to be directly dismissive is the one that claims about the study being made with a total size of 25 people, of which a final 7 people were selected for the in-depth interview. Everything about this study seems to be terrible. How the study was made, the reaction by Facebook of the result, the researcher who conducted the study. It seems that r…

They said "I see a lot defending the researchers involved", they didn't say they'd seen it in this HN comment thread :)

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#85

Post by Manuel_D »

freewilly1040 wrote: post #40

I see a lot defending the researchers involved, talking about how great they are and how none of Facebook’s misdeeds are their fault. At some point though, when data is consistently not shared, and any findings not favorable to the company are buried, what these people do is not “research”. It’s propaganda. They serve to give Facebook the appearance of valuing neutral judgement on the impact of their platform, and to…

I feel like many of the same criticisms can be said of the coverage of this research. Like pointing out that the study showed a portion of teens said Instagram made them feel worse, but conspicuous omitting that twice as many reported that Instagram made them feel better.

I can understand the desire for discrete research when they (correctly) suspect that media coverage will have negative slant.

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#86

Post by RNCTX »

atdrummond wrote: post #83
RNCTX wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An apt comparison, considering Steven Donziger is in court again this week, after having basically endured a corporate-funded prosecution that has drawn on for almost three years, for the crime of winning a civil pollution suit against Chevron. The children of every fed-level elected and appointed official in his jurisdiction and/or related to the case (house of reps member, both senators, judge, prosecutor) work for…

Where can I read more about this?

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/574921-former-...

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/29/steven-donziger-sentenci...

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#87

Post by thrav »

marcellus23 wrote: post #82
thrav wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I make claims about entire countries, or did I readily admit that I was only sharing my own small taste, explicitly stating that it shouldn’t be sufficient for broad conclusions?

You tell me: > In America, people proudly declare shopping a hobby.

Did I say, “All Americans”? Or was I making a comment about a common occurrence within the country?

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#88

Post by Karrot_Kream »

haswell wrote: post #6
johncena33 wrote: post #4

As much as I don't like social media and Zuck in general, I think social media get a lot of undeserved blame. The biggest culture shock I had coming to North America, how materialistic, exhibitionistic and keeping-up-with-the-joneses the whole culture is. Sure, social media has made it worse. Before you can broadcast your fancy car to your neighbors, but cannot broadcast your fancy dinner to the whole world. With soc…

> But the culture of materialism and obsession with status was there well before social media has come into the picture. This is a pretty gross generalization of an entire country filled with diverse people, a significant number of whom do not match this description at all, now or before social media. On what are you basing this? This sounds like the kind of conclusion you might draw by using social media as a measur…

While this connection is tenuous at best, according to Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions Theory [1], the US is a pretty heavily "Indulgent" culture. In a comparison I did on the website between the US, Germany, Japan, and Egypt [2] the US (closely mirrored by the UK in fact) scores much higher on "Indulgence" than the other listed cultures. There's nuance here because the results for South Africa, for example, are pretty different than Egypt, but it does go to show that the US is a pretty indulgent culture which I can credibly see correlating with a consumerist mindset. That said, there aren't enough studies on this out there, and I think it would be interesting to conduct this kind of research. (And if there is research here I'd love to be offered papers to read!)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions...

[2]: https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/egypt,g...

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#89

Post by jcranberry »

atdrummond wrote: post #83
RNCTX wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An apt comparison, considering Steven Donziger is in court again this week, after having basically endured a corporate-funded prosecution that has drawn on for almost three years, for the crime of winning a civil pollution suit against Chevron. The children of every fed-level elected and appointed official in his jurisdiction and/or related to the case (house of reps member, both senators, judge, prosecutor) work for…

Where can I read more about this?

Here is a fairly deep dive into the case by a lawyer on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7d2KoXmPXk

Re: Facebook’s documents about Instagram and teens, published

#90

Post by tomlin »

closeparen wrote: post #33
GhettoComputers wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is my lazy, poor taste or political opinion? You are attacking my post with no evidence or counter points, a emotional response that isn't based on anything other than hearsay, the first section is a strawman, and the second is how your sample bias should dismiss any other experiences. Is it not hypocritical to dismiss the effect of social media on suicide, such as by cyber bullying? My experience with social me…

Social media is one of dozens of social changes in the last N years. You can line any one of them up next to any bad outcome. This is not generally being done from a place of epistemic humility or interest in establishing causation. It’s just “thing I already don’t like lines up with bad outcome, see how right I am not to like it!” If that’s not what you’re doing, I don’t mean it as an attack on you. I just think we’…

A lot of data counters what you're trying to put out here. I wish it weren't true, but if you would like, I can point you to studies where you can see how teen suicide in girls and the launch of Instagram, then Snapchat, then TikTok - as well, final thoughts and letters by a large amount of these young girls vary from saying that social media WAS the reason for their suicide, to saying that actions made by others (via social media) were a factor in others. I do sincerely think social media is a force for harm for everyone - as it raises division among people at rates that are hard to build responses to. Psychologists also largely agree that the effects of social media are causing a new kind of concern outside of what we've so far dealt with.

I do sort of think you might have an agenda here, for at this point you are suggesting that the thoughts and feelings of the girls who committed suicide should hold almost no weight. Maybe you're not saying that outright, but if you haven't looked into the lives of these girls before suggesting their plight is "just another generational grievance", well, yeah, we are fucked.

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