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Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

blog.benjojo.co.uk

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Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#81

Post by gattilorenz »

jchw wrote: post #29
caminante wrote: post #27

Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" [0] Basically, buy these adaptors and for ~$100, you can have create a "wired" LAN connection using power outlets in a home. [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-powerline-adaptors

In practice, my problem with these is reliability. They can have noticeable issues with maintaining an uninterrupted, low latency connection suitable for real time use, in my experience; and this was with a fairly high end powerline adapter. This is unfortunate, because it would be very convenient if you didn’t have to deal with making ethernet cable runs all over the place…

> In practice, my problem with these is reliability. They can have noticeable issues with maintaining an uninterrupted, low latency connection

True,especially when a microwave, washing machine or other motor starts sending noise down the power line...

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#82

Post by toast0 »

garaetjjte wrote: post #80
toast0 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've got two pair, you can probably run 100BaseTx, even if the cable is not up to cat5 spec, especially if the runs are short and separated from other lines; Ethernet specs are for 100 meter distances most of which is in a tight conduit with other high frequency data transmissions. Old in-home phone wiring is likely not tightly packed or very long. If you've got an old house with old telephone wiring, it's proba…

>If you've got two pair, you can probably run 100BaseTx Well, 100BASE-TX will also run on single pair in half-duplex mode. Alternatively you can also use powerline adapters over any cabling (twisted pair/coax/whatever). Just instead of connecting adapter prongs to power socket, connect to your cable and feed there enough power to supply the adapters. Around 50V DC (as commonly used by PoE supplies) will probably be e…

> Well, 100BASE-TX will also run on single pair in half-duplex mode.

I mean, kind of, but I don't know how you get network cards to run on a single pair? I'm actually interested, because if it works for 100BaseTx, it probably also works for 10BaseT, and I've got 10BaseT half duplex device I'd like to network, but only one pair available (there's a 3-pair cable run, but two are used for voice communication). I've tried a commercial product (ETSLAN Monoline Balun), but while I can get it to work a bit when testing on parts of the line, it doesn't work across the whole line; if I can just wire something more simple, that'd be worth a try too.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#83

Post by garaetjjte »

toast0 wrote: post #82
garaetjjte wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you've got two pair, you can probably run 100BaseTx Well, 100BASE-TX will also run on single pair in half-duplex mode. Alternatively you can also use powerline adapters over any cabling (twisted pair/coax/whatever). Just instead of connecting adapter prongs to power socket, connect to your cable and feed there enough power to supply the adapters. Around 50V DC (as commonly used by PoE supplies) will probably be e…

> Well, 100BASE-TX will also run on single pair in half-duplex mode. I mean, kind of, but I don't know how you get network cards to run on a single pair? I'm actually interested, because if it works for 100BaseTx, it probably also works for 10BaseT, and I've got 10BaseT half duplex device I'd like to network, but only one pair available (there's a 3-pair cable run, but two are used for voice communication). I've trie…

You just connect single pair, it should auto-negotiate if other device supports it, otherwise you need to set mode in network card settings manually. https://i.imgur.com/xIsJJiN.png

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#84

Post by aksss »

EricE wrote: post #73
toast0 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound crazy at all, there's not really anything in your breaker panel or your meter or the outside wiring designed to stop these signals, it's just that there's also nothing designed to help the signals make it through all that, so you wouldn't expect it to continue beyond your house. Just like they tend not to work very well when used on different circuits, they shouldn't work very well outside your house, w…

There are phase bridges to ensure powerline signals are on both phases in the typical US house, and phase filters available that filter the powerline frequencies - they were originally conceived not so much for leaking out, but preventing noise from leaking in and interfering with powerline stuff. X10 users have used them for years - you can find them with vendors that specialize in dealing with the X10 community or…

Ethernet over coax? That’s some OG networking. Break out those 10base5 adapters from ur possibles box. I guess this is also the time to bring up the obligatory Ethernet over barbed wire solution: http://www.sigcon.com/Pubs/edn/SoGoodBarbedWire.htm

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#86

Post by navaati »

dspillett wrote: post #36
benjojo12 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Author here) These switches got a lot more expensive at the start of the pandemic, I think the chipsets became hard to source.

Some network devices and other kit became harder to find (or jumped in price) as people upgraded their home environments for working from home. While many buying for themselves would have stuck with even cheaper consumer-grade kit, companies that wanted to monitor/manage their remote workers' network would have wanted something that is possible to monitor/manage from afar (which a bog standard “dumb switch” wouldn't…

Oh the horror, does that actually happen ?

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#87

Post by toast0 »

garaetjjte wrote: post #83
toast0 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, 100BASE-TX will also run on single pair in half-duplex mode. I mean, kind of, but I don't know how you get network cards to run on a single pair? I'm actually interested, because if it works for 100BaseTx, it probably also works for 10BaseT, and I've got 10BaseT half duplex device I'd like to network, but only one pair available (there's a 3-pair cable run, but two are used for voice communication). I've trie…

You just connect single pair, it should auto-negotiate if other device supports it, otherwise you need to set mode in network card settings manually. https://i.imgur.com/xIsJJiN.png

So just connect pin one and three to the white wire and two and six to the solid color wire on both ends and it should work as long as both ends are half-duplex?

I would think the NICs would sense their own transmissions and declare a local collision?

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#88

Post by ggrothendieck »

WalterBright wrote: post #61
anonymousisme wrote: post #31

The Dell N1100 is a nice switch, but a relatively new product ( Below is my survey response to their support feedback request: 1) The products should not have a built-in time-bomb that causes them to stop working after only a few years. 2) Dell should have informed us of this issue by email. Instead they left a very "phishing" like voicemail on a manager's phone. (Not the phone of the registered point-of-contract for…

> The products should not have a built-in time-bomb that causes them to stop working after only a few years. First Turtle Beach bricked my Audiotron by abandoning the web site required for it to function, then Grace Digital bricked my three GD streaming devices for the same reason.

> Grace Digital bricked my three GD streaming devices

If you are referring to a Reciva based internet radio the web site which powers them was shut down by the owner of that site, not by Grace Digital. Also, if it is similar to my CC Wifi Reciva based radio it is still possible to access existing presets on the radio although you can no longer add presets or modify them any more. When you power it on wait for the Network Error caused by the lack of the back end and then press Back twice and then a preset. The media server functionality also still works.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#89

Post by bigiain »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #65
myself248 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep that feeling in the pit of your stomach for a few years. Watch as a multitude of forces (mostly related to surveillance capitalism) foist billions of such devices on unsuspecting consumers. Tell anyone who'll listen, how shortsighted this is, how much of a fall it's setting us up for. Watch it happen anyway. Watch it accelerate. Watch the devices grow in complexity, capability, connectivity, and vulnerability. W…

Cyberpunk used to be fiction. It disgusts me when I realize I'm already living in it.

That feeling in the pit of your stomach when you realise you've been _building_ it hurts.

I still feel complicit.

I worked for a hardware startup in 2013/2014. Part of my role was to populate and run the private pacman server that the devices got their OS and software updates from (we ran ARCH, but didn't connect to the public ARCH pacman repos, because we had some hardware specific code and kernel mods we needed to work, so we tested everything that updated on there public pacman repos before letting the devices load them). The startup failed after the first batch of products were shipped - as they are wont to do. Much acrimony about who owned what. I kept the Linode instance running the pacman server on my own credit card for years, but eventually the domain name (or perhaps the dns hosting, I don't recall) expired and the only devices that still knew how to get to the repo were my own. If I'd have a heads-up that dns was going to die, I could have pushed a config change to use a domain name under my control, but it just unexpectedly switched off.

There were only a few hundred devices I was keeping software updates flowing to. But the feeling of despair when I was no longer able to do that and finally decommissioned that Linode server was heartbreaking.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#90

Post by WalterBright »

ggrothendieck wrote: post #88
WalterBright wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The products should not have a built-in time-bomb that causes them to stop working after only a few years. First Turtle Beach bricked my Audiotron by abandoning the web site required for it to function, then Grace Digital bricked my three GD streaming devices for the same reason.

> Grace Digital bricked my three GD streaming devices If you are referring to a Reciva based internet radio the web site which powers them was shut down by the owner of that site, not by Grace Digital. Also, if it is similar to my CC Wifi Reciva based radio it is still possible to access existing presets on the radio although you can no longer add presets or modify them any more. When you power it on wait for the Net…

> If you are referring to a Reciva based internet radio the web site which powers them was shut down by the owner of that site, not by Grace Digital

I am referring to that. I'm reduced to 3 presets. The disaster is that:

1. the device was critically connected to a resource that GD does not control

2. GD offers no way to change this dependency, no way to redirect it elsewhere, no way to change the presets, no way to access radio stations, etc

3. I don't see any reason why they had to use Reciva to access Pandora

None of this was disclosed when I bought them. GD should offer a web interface to it, like my router has.

The media server does still work, but it can't read USB sticks with more than 32G of capacity.

But my Roku device can. Roku works fine when I hook up a 16T drive to its USB port. Pretty much all the streaming devices I looked at as replacement for GD have strange limitations on what can be connected (some USB sticks work, others do not), Roku does not.

I'm kinda shocked that 20 years after the Turtle Beach Audiotron, streaming devices are still mired in the stone age with bad user interfaces, poor device support, unusable displays, bricking, and very buggy (my GDs regularly locked up).

My GD display, for example, shows:

1. the title of the song 2. the bit rate 3. the elapsed time

When it should show:

1. title/album/band

2. time remaining

3. album cover art

The GD is like 90% towards being a good product. Why not go the last 10%?

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