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Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

nytimes.com

81–90 of 308 posts

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#81
post #8

> Richard Dahan, who is deaf, said he had struggled at his former job at an Apple Store in Maryland for six years because his manager refused to provide a sign-language interpreter for him to communicate with customers, which federal law requires under some circumstances. This just doesn't seem like a reasonable accommodation for a retail job. Your whole job is to communicate with the customers. If you need to hire a…

+1 As a society we want to do all we can to accommodate the handicapped so they can work, and many deaf persons are extremely effective lip-readers able to handle retail customer interactions. If Richard's lip-reading isn't up to the job, a non customer facing role would be better for Richard, either that or have Richard do email and message chat customer interactions that are compatible with his deafness.

I suspect that it goes beyond lip reading. Deaf people can't speak as well because there is no feedback mechanism of hearing their own voice. So you need a mechanism for them to communicate outbound in addition to the inbound lip reading. That can be via writing, text to speech, a human interpreter, etc...

The problem is costs. I wonder what people would say if you required mom and pop stores to have sign language interpreters? It would drive many out of business.

Now look at spiraling Medicare costs. We have similar expectations for the elderly and it is increasingly untenable.

We need a lot more automation to maintain or increase this level of social support services.

Another issue is what we classify as a disability. As another commentator mentioned, what about lack of strength, intelligence, etc? There is a vein of American culture that is trending that way. It basically spreads the costs to other parts of society, directly and indirectly. Tricky since most people are actually disabled temporarily or permanently in one way or another. Color blindness, myopia, bad hearing, on crutches from tearing an Achilles, etc...

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's always a tiny minority of activists organizing on slack who are causing a lot of the unrest in tech companies. This is a common talking point to marginalize political activity in any situation: 'It's just a tiny minority agitating', etc. In every situation, a tiny minority appeals to the majority and sometimes it convinces them. (If a majority of Americans ever protested something, that would be over 160 milli…

A business isn’t a social club. More often than not, agitators have an agenda to agitate no matter what, or to provide air cover for other issues. When I’ve run into this sort of thing, telltale signs of bullshit activism emerges from sales and marketing people not hitting the metrics, people at risk of being pushed out for performance issues, or people getting passed over.

Apple isn't like any business you've worked at before. While this movement might have signs of social activism, Apple's culture of secrecy is sui generis. It's been a long time coming for any sort of pushback against it, and it makes sense that it took a pandemic and enforced WFH for the systems of control to begin to break down.

As to whether or not their grievances are warranted, try asking any of your colleagues who used to work at Apple, and decide for yourself.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's always a tiny minority of activists organizing on slack who are causing a lot of the unrest in tech companies. This is a common talking point to marginalize political activity in any situation: 'It's just a tiny minority agitating', etc. In every situation, a tiny minority appeals to the majority and sometimes it convinces them. (If a majority of Americans ever protested something, that would be over 160 milli…

A business isn’t a social club. More often than not, agitators have an agenda to agitate no matter what, or to provide air cover for other issues. When I’ve run into this sort of thing, telltale signs of bullshit activism emerges from sales and marketing people not hitting the metrics, people at risk of being pushed out for performance issues, or people getting passed over.

People never have legitimate concerns about pay, working conditions, etc.?

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#84
post #68
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.

From my experience with a deaf employee at an Apple store, it was actually pretty efficient, because communication was precise and to the point and there was no unnecessary small talk or attempts to sell me something I wasn’t asking for. Might have been less appropriate for customers that walk in not knowing what they want.

Also seems like a great way to demo speech to text use by the customer

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#85
post #69

> I understand the secrecy piece is important for product security, to surprise and delight customers When was the last time you were surprised and delighted by an Apple product? I think they make the world's best, and most responsible, products, but surprised by an iPhone upgrade? When was the last time they created a new category?

> When was the last time they created a new category? Almost every current Apple product (save the HomePod) is the category defining product of it's class. The iPhone, the iPad, the M1 MacBooks, the Apple Watch, the AirPods, the Apple TV, the iMac, and the AirTags are all essentially best-in-class, and the standards-bearer for the category.

I mean, what new product categories has Apple created (or defined) like they did with the iPhone? Phones, tablets, laptops, wearables, etc. are old news.

AirTags are pretty cool, but a small category.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it similar to Twitter where the <0.1% drive dialogue?

You could say that about most communities though. For every person that submits an article to HN, how many readers are there?

Somewhere between 5 and 10 million uniques a day IIRC

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#87
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stop shopping in places where the customer service is slow. Such is life.

Would you ditch Apple if you had a customer service experience with a deaf person and it took 3-5 minutes longer than it would have with a hearing person?

I'd be really happy to see we are accommodating people with disabilities.

A reminder to me that if I lost my eyesight, hearing, or mobility, I won't be left behind.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#88
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple stores offer this on a scheduled basis, https://9to5mac.com/2021/02/25/apple-retail-store-sign-langu... It's a completely different thing to expect a company to hire 2 people (with 2 full time salary and benefits) when 1 will do. Especially for a low skill job that has no real shortage of potential workers.

> to hire 2 people (with 2 full time salary and benefits) when 1 will do For one of the most profitable companies in the world, this doesn't seem outrageous (1 extra employee per store, maybe full time, likely not) especially given the fact that Apple doesn't support right-to-repair they will naturally have more foot traffic than most similar businesses.

It's not even so much about the actual cost, as much as the absurd inefficiency and waste of human potential.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#89
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One must keep in mind that the United States is and near or more always has been a welfare state. If one must keep that in mind, may one ask what definition of "welfare state" has applied to the USA since its founding?

> may one ask what definition of "welfare state" has applied to the USA since its founding? I’m going to assume that this is a serious question and try to quickly answer it in good faith. A quick search finds these figures [0] from the Congressional Research Service. “CRS identified 83 overlapping federal welfare programs that together represented the single largest budget item in 2011—more than the nation spends on…

> I’m going to assume that this is a serious question and try to quickly answer it in good faith.

It is a serious question and I was hoping for something closer to the late 1700s vintage. I'm well aware there is a vast welfare system in place today.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#90
post #62
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally, nothing is unreasonable for Apple. They're among the richest companies on the planet. I'm over Corporate Equity and treating them the same as the mom & pop grocery store down the street. Yeah, it'd be unreasonable for small businesses. Its not unreasonable for Apple. Tim Cook could personally , out of his own salary, pay the salaries of every Apple employee in New York. He could give them all a 200% raise,…

You don't actually know Tim Cook's salary, do you? Please stop pretending that you do. Hint: the vast majority of his compensation is, and has always been, via stock grants.

> In 2020, Tim Cook's compensation included $3M in base pay, a $10.7M bonus, and $250.3M in stock grants.

You do understand that, because Apple is a public company, all of this information is literally public knowledge, right?

If you'd like to argue that stock grants are not part of a person's salary, that is a reasonable interpretation of the definition of "salary", but hardly relevant to the broader point, which is clearly not to assert that Timmy should open up his checkbook, but rather to illustrate how incredibly inane it is to suggest that a few hundred bucks a week for an hourly interpreter means anything at the scale Apple operates at.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-highest-paid-ceos/

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