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The Crime of Curiosity

piratewires.com

81–90 of 223 posts

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#81

You don't have a right to service from a private company. Why are people so surprised and or angered by this? The law is clear: you can be denied service as long as the reason you are being denied is not your sex, religion, etc. [Protected classes]. If you go to a restaurant and they don't like you they can throw you out, and so can a hardware store, and a movie theater, etc. (Exempting the protected reasons). Find a…

People are surprised and or angered by this because they aren't as clear on the law as you are. It's understandable, and they need help to better understand how it works. With that in mind, got any other services that would be replacements?

Why do people always ask "What other privately owned service I don't have control over can I use?" instead of asking "How can I make my own platform that I have control over?".

Peertube, off the top of my head, would be the exact tool for the job.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#82

The author conflates two things. The right to biohack at home and Youtube's alleged obligation to let him broadcast his material. The first one is okay, as long as we're not talking about experiments that may be dangerous to the public. (which he seems to categorically reject for some reason, while home made bioterrorism is a real threat), the second one just doesn't follow at all. Youtube has no realistic way to tel…

Agreed - the lesson here is platforms like YouTube have a lot more control than most assume. An easy to use, censorship resistant, video host seems needed.

They have precisely as much control as anyone familiar with US law and business practice should expect: total control.

As for censorship, I'm sorry but I don't consider what even a corporation whose operation is on the scale of YT or FB does to be censorship.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#83
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was with him up to that point. "None of the kits we sell contain anything dangerous, nor is the average person experimenting with biology inherently dangerous. If you are trying to engineer something hazardous — like say a bat virus — you might have a problem, but the genome search space is large enough that accidentally creating a harmful organism is astronomically improbable. Access to most dangerous materia…

Do you see any comparison to Machine Learning? I get the impression he considers himself like a hobbyist running some models on their home GPU. Without access to server farms, there is an almost zero percent chance a home hobbyist invents an AI capable of displacing large amounts of human workers or setting off nukes on its own. AI is dangerous, but can be explored safely by a small practitioner. Perhaps these biomat…

I think the current AI threat is less "it's too intelligent and takes over", but rather "it's too stupid but we force it to take over anyway".

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious to hear more about this. Is censorship "removal" or simply not getting votes? I've seen this concept generally addressed here before as "we don't censor, people just vote this way"

It was flagged by a mod.

and no longer is.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#85
post #13

"Democratizing genetic engineering won’t suddenly unleash bioterrorism upon the world." How sure is he of that, and why? As a comparison, nuclear power has been of great utility for many countries, but I sure would not want to see it "democratized".

but I sure would not want to see it "democratized"

Nuclear power is already "democratized" by design. The basic framework of the non-proliferation treaty is that signatories get to use nuclear power (and receive international assistance developing nuclear power) in exchange for a commitment not to develop nuclear weapons.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed - the lesson here is platforms like YouTube have a lot more control than most assume. An easy to use, censorship resistant, video host seems needed.

They have precisely as much control as anyone familiar with US law and business practice should expect: total control. As for censorship, I'm sorry but I don't consider what even a corporation whose operation is on the scale of YT or FB does to be censorship.

It's still censorship even if it's not the government.

User A posts content. User B subscribes. Entity C decides that B is not allowed to read what A has to say.

C is a censor.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#87
post #27

The potential costs of systemically removing correct but controversial/fringe content are extremely detrimental to scientific progress in general. Sure, we remove thousands of obviously false and likely harmful posts, and there are cases to be made for why that may be good, but sometimes hidden within those thousands of posts was something that may have had a tremendously positive effect, but yet could not be separat…

From what I remember, the Western expert opinion about wearing masks in public changed from "a weird East Asian habit" to "something that could be useful" around March 2020. The debate continued beyond that mostly because the issue had already been politicized. And because people who are used to prosperity are often unable to handle the uncertainty of living through a major change. Too many people prefer experts who don't change their minds over those who do.

I also remember experts expecting effective vaccines by the end of 2020 already in January or February 2020. The key scientific challenge in vaccines was never about developing them but about collecting sufficient evidence that the vaccines are effective enough and safe enough in diverse populations. And beyond that, getting the vaccines approved and distributed to billions of people before the pandemic is over were even bigger challenges.

One thing contrarians often miss is that science is fundamentally about building and changing the consensus. It's not about convincing yourself that you have discovered something new, but about trying to convince yourself that you are wrong. And failing to do that, trying to convince the relevant audience that you have in fact discovered something new. Believing in something is a matter of faith. Convincing a skeptical audience that is nonetheless open to new ideas is science.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the whole "censoring" stuff ratcheted up really fast. Kinda crazy.

HackerNews is notorious for censoring anything that falls outside its groupthink or threatens a portfolio company. It's actually one of the more aggressive censors on the internet. Case in point from this very thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28558254 There is no free speech here.

HN is not overly censoring, but it [0] is very disapproving of overly divisive and flaming content. Also, HN is not one person. And the comment you linked is not even negative at the moment.

[0] In this case, both community and moderators.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#89
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have precisely as much control as anyone familiar with US law and business practice should expect: total control. As for censorship, I'm sorry but I don't consider what even a corporation whose operation is on the scale of YT or FB does to be censorship.

It's still censorship even if it's not the government. User A posts content. User B subscribes. Entity C decides that B is not allowed to read what A has to say. C is a censor.

Are you a censor if you own the platform?

You can't come into my print shop and print Nazi literature. Could you print it yourself? Sure. So I'm not preventing you from printing it - I'm preventing you from printing it on my equipment.

I.E - No, that's not censorship.

Re: The Crime of Curiosity

#90
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The Crime of Curiosity" is a great way to put it, because we're already banned from questioning a lot of areas of science on most major tech platforms. I think the keyword that, in my mind, justifies the censorship here is "on most major tech platforms". Nobody is banning the discussion of these ideas in academic journals or HN or other places where curious people can go to discuss things - it's just making sure un…

That's such an arrogant, condescending statement. You're assuming that the general population is too stupid to be trusted with unfiltered information. But theories aren't dangerous. Actions are dangerous.

This is total BS. Theories are dangerous. If they weren't, nobody would ever care about them. They are dangerous because they can be inspiring, sometimes inspiring action. You can say you don't want to ban the theory, only the actions, and that's a legitimate position. It reduces you to post-facto behavior only, however (which may be just fine for you). Many societies and people within them over time have not been fine with that. What they've done about it varies, from draconian bans on theories and punishment for those advocating them, to much milder versions such as "you can no longer use the services of a private company to talk about your ideas".

The general population is not equipped with enough information or enough time to meaningfully distinguish between bullshit and non-bullshit. Just yesterday, there was a post about a new long article/paper/publication by Stephen Wolfram, and the comments there made it clear that even among the academic community relevant to what he writes about, there's widespread disagreement about whether he's an egotistical empty vessel or the second coming of Einstein and Newton's lovechild (with a possible bias towards the former).

I'm all for elevating the agency and capabilities of "the general population", but pretending that a random discoverer of a video on self-use of CRISPR is going to be able to sensibly identify what may be of value and what may be dangerous is just incredibly naive.

And note: the problems do not arise with the general member of the public who decides to do their own deep dive after coming across an idea. If that was the universal response to encountering unfamiliar or controversial ideas, we might be in good shape. The problem is that most people have neither the time nor the inclination to do this, and so stuff just ends up floating around in their impressions of the world, unresolved, but perhaps casting doubt on stuff that is almost certainly true (or false).

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