How do they measure it? I can't seem to find their method.
Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
81–90 of 284 posts
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#82I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…
How much of this is just the millions of Wordpress or Nextcloud installations? I’d be more interested in knowing how many unique apps or developers work on each language because in my experience I haven’t actually seen a single php developer other than Wordpress tweakers.
There are plenty of custom PHP websites and devs that write them. I, too, still write fully custom (no framework) PHP webapps for customers where I don't expect to be babysitting the app after it's written, and where websockets and real-time interactivity is not necessary.
PHP is great fit for that, because all dependencies are part of the system updates in that case.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#83I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…
Agreed, in fact modern SPA stacks are incredibly inefficient.
And the corporate world move slowly.
And dev cost money. Most websites don't need more, they were fine 10 years ago and still are.
Although I'm not sure we have the whole story. I'm assuming we get high stats because of wordpress, which is not a good indicator of language popularity, but rather of platform popularity.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#84As an ex PHP developer, I don’t think it will ever go away. There is just way to much software that was written in PHP (e-commerce, blogs, CMS systems, Nextcloud/ownCloud, …) that isn’t going away. PHP isn’t something I ever want to touch again (its libs are wonky and I dislike the syntax choices of the last years) but the execution model was sort of nice before the frameworks (an entry point with a clean state you c…
Why would PHP want to go away? It's developing and there's plenty of software being written in it now and it will continue to do so. There's not much wrong with modern PHP. Symfony and Laravel projects are a joy to work with. The standards and tooling is there too with composer, phpunit, PSR-4. I don't think you've ever been into PHP if you was only wrenching in old projects.
Dude I am old. When I was working with PHP I had to watch out for diffs between 4.x and 5.x servers. Hell, I think we hat some old 3.x code even. Frameworks where new, composer didn’t exist and I was getting annoyed of getting Paamayim Nekudotayim as an Error because the where limitations in the engine when it comes to finding the static methods of a class instance.
Thing is those OLD projects where new when I was working on them. When I got into WordPress back then It was NEW. When I got in to jQuery it had 3% market share and it was the underdog. A lot of the arguments you might be sick of hearing about, well back then they where valid.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#85I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…
How much of this is just the millions of Wordpress or Nextcloud installations? I’d be more interested in knowing how many unique apps or developers work on each language because in my experience I haven’t actually seen a single php developer other than Wordpress tweakers.
Nice to meet you.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#86I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…
It is not about efficiency , it is about legacy. You can count number of Perl scripts out there and conclude that Perl is still the most popular scripting/devops tool in the world
Kind of true, there are loads of companies that started out as a 1 or 2 person gig with a crappy wordpress site as their MVP, then they take on a full time php developer to make some changes and before you know it they are a few years in and are rebuilding their site in Laravel or Symfony.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
PHP is my bread and butter. Yes there are still shops that use it. It doesn't really deserve the bad rap.
It's bearable since version 7, and unless they make it another Java in version 8 which will make it unbearable again, it's gonna be ok. Kids who want to seem cool have moved on to Go and NodeJS, so PHP is mainly left with people who got some experience and mostly know what they are doing, save for those who really just twiddle Wordpress until it sort of appears to do what they want it to do. I suspect that PHP's ulti…
The funny part is we still use Node for various sub tasks like webpack. Soon we'll be adding a unit testing layer to the JavaScript which will run in NodeJS as well. But I might wrap it with our PHP launcher. We'll see.
The thing with PHP is it's very easy to understand in comparison with Perl. When Facebook did a study on which languages take the least amount of time to onboard new hires PHP won every time. It's also why they use their own version of PHP in house (Hack). It's 95% same thing with additional features like async built into their engine.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#88How is this state even determined? If we exclude Facebook & Wikipedia how much market share is left after that?
I ask as the statistic seems to be projecting that it is the most popular amongst people, but it feels like it is a legacy language. Maybe adding in how much new server unrelated to the legacy apps are written in PHP would be a good contrast.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#89PHP has quite a few things going for it. File-system based routing before it was cool. Each request cycle is isolated, so an error in your script won't bring down the whole server. With shared hosting, you get something very similar to serverless functions today. The language was created with embedding tags from the start, so there is no need to build or use 3rd party template parser. Everything outside of php tags just gets outputted as strings, very similar to JSX. The biggest downside is (was?) C-style file includes, instead of packages.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#90As an ex PHP developer, I don’t think it will ever go away. There is just way to much software that was written in PHP (e-commerce, blogs, CMS systems, Nextcloud/ownCloud, …) that isn’t going away. PHP isn’t something I ever want to touch again (its libs are wonky and I dislike the syntax choices of the last years) but the execution model was sort of nice before the frameworks (an entry point with a clean state you c…
Owncloud is switching to Go. https://owncloud.com/news/ready-steady-go/