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Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

npr.org

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Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#81

Post by hunterb123 »

dragontamer wrote: post #67
hunterb123 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Flu isn't one strain. It's many highly mutative strains, kinda different from the handful of stable strains of covid. That is all FUD. Natural immunity does fine, just like the vaccine you may be reinfected but the effects will be severely diminished. Look, this shouldn't be a surprise. Evolution is a bit better at this stuff than man, it's been doing it longer. I'm all for people taking boosters if they want to…

> That is all FUD. Natural immunity does fine, just like the vaccine you may be reinfected but the effects will be severely diminished. Why did Manaus, Brazil run out of hospital space in a 2nd surge? Despite initial infection rates of ~75%ish ? Why was this effect then replicated in a 2nd Brazilian city of Araraquara city by a different research team? (Aka: a "2nd wave" of COVID19, despite a highly infected populati…

Either mismanagement or false reporting / fear mongering which runs rampant in covid times.

I don't know how you think that translates to poor natural immunity.

You would need to know the % of patients with covid of the ICUs that are overrun, whether they were previously infected, etc.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#82

Post by AndrewBissell »

betterunix2 wrote: post #55
woodpanel wrote: post #15

Regardless of where you stand with this policy, you gotta give it some Kudos: It's a very efficient way to cleanse your entire bureaucracy of doubters. I can't think of another example where a democratic republic, which by definition includes a spectrum of opinions, has its whole bureaucratic hierarchy re-aligned with the ruling party's platform. Maybe this is due to the fact, that this is inherently undemocratic?

Vaccination is not a political position. Vaccines only work if a large majority of people are vaccinated and people who refuse to receive the shot are putting everyone else in danger. A basic function of a government is to protect public safety, and that is what a vaccine mandate does.

> Vaccines only work if a large majority of people are vaccinated and people who refuse to receive the shot are putting everyone else in danger.

I assume by "work" you mean herd immunity (I can't make sense of the statement otherwise), but even 99% vaccinated regions are seeing transmission because the Covid vaccines are not sterilizing and do little or nothing to reduce transmission. Herd immunity arguments don't apply here.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#83

Post by nostromo »

strict9 wrote: post #37
nostromo wrote: post #9

> but vaccine hesitancy — particularly among white Republicans This sort of quip really makes me distrust NPR. White people are more vaccinated than blacks or Latinos, but the journalist couldn't help but try to throw in a dunk on their favorite bogeyman. https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-p...

"As you may know, an FDA-authorized vaccine for COVID-19 is now available for free to all adults in the U.S. Do you think you will...?" # Definitely not get the vaccine | white: 65%, hispanic: 13%, black: 13% # Wait and see | white: 50%, hispanic: 27%, black: 14% # Unvaccinated adults | white: 57%, hispanic: 20%, black: 13% "Partisanship also plays a major role with more than half (58%) of the “definitely not” group…

> Definitely not get the vaccine white: 65% hispanic: 13% black: 13%

Given US demographics, this is exactly what one would expect.

> Unvaccinated adults white: 57% hispanic: 20% black: 13%

Again, this shows white people as more vaccinated than other groups when accounting for population.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#84

Post by bestcoder69 »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #72
bestcoder69 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Texas to be a public employee you must certify that you will not boycott Israel. This is an actual political position that’s disallowed. Under Biden’s change (correct me if I’m wrong), I can believe whatever I want about vaccines and say anything (so: have a political position)… as long as I get vaccinated (this is not a political position). Not to mention that both ruling parties at the top are urging all to get…

> Not to mention that both ruling parties at the top are urging all to get vaccinated. Ah good, the stuff they come together on is always really great.

Yep same with my primary care physician, my kids pediatrician, wife’s OBGYN, and the health authorities of… y’know what damn near everything.

On the other hand the dumbest people I’m related to are fiercely on your side. So maybe I need to do some more research.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#85

Post by jdcjciejdb »

unchocked wrote: post #11

Good. There is no better use of state power than ensuring public health. Supreme Court resolved this in 1905 w/r/t smallpox.

Absolutely. This also paved the way for Buck v. Bell. There is no better use of state power than forced sterilization (public health).

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#86

Post by swayvil »

thrill wrote: post #76
swayvil wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad. I prefer to have a choice. The, "Trust the authority. It's for your own good." argument does not sway me.

You do have a choice. Take the vaccine if you want to work in the federal government or find another job. The government doesn't owe you or anyone else a job.

That's a really poisonous argument.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#87

Post by betterunix2 »

gregwebs wrote: post #57

IMHO the effective thing to do is to focus all our efforts on vaccinating 100% of those that will end up in the ICU (the elderly and those with co-morbidities). These kinds of vaccine mandates get some of those at the greatest risk vaccinated but also ends up being a giant distraction in the US and makes it harder for the rest of the world to get the vaccines that they need as well. I think the blanket mandate approa…

That is not how vaccines or diseases work. Vaccines are never 100% effective at preventing infections or at preventing people from having to go to the ER. One vaccinated person surrounded by unvaccinated people will eventually contract the virus. A large unvaccinated population also breeds new variants, eventually resulting in vaccine-resistant variants that put those who are vaccinated in danger.

The fact is that a particularly vulnerable person is better off surrounded by vaccinated people even if they themselves are unvaccinated than if they are vaccinated but surrounded by unvaccinated people. This is a good and long overdue policy that should be widely replicated wherever vaccine supply permits.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#88

Post by spywaregorilla »

betterunix2 wrote: post #55
woodpanel wrote: post #15

Regardless of where you stand with this policy, you gotta give it some Kudos: It's a very efficient way to cleanse your entire bureaucracy of doubters. I can't think of another example where a democratic republic, which by definition includes a spectrum of opinions, has its whole bureaucratic hierarchy re-aligned with the ruling party's platform. Maybe this is due to the fact, that this is inherently undemocratic?

Vaccination is not a political position. Vaccines only work if a large majority of people are vaccinated and people who refuse to receive the shot are putting everyone else in danger. A basic function of a government is to protect public safety, and that is what a vaccine mandate does.

Clearly it has become a political position. A progressive way of thinking about this move is to depoliticize it by making it the enforced norm because it's a stupid thing to politicize. A cynical view is that it'll force non conformers out.

But its hardly novel to make government employees do politically slanted things. I'm sure a lot of government employees on the democrat or neutral side felt strong opposition to demands made of them during the trump admin.

I'm for this one.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#89

Post by kodah »

whymauri wrote: post #48
strict9 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As you may know, an FDA-authorized vaccine for COVID-19 is now available for free to all adults in the U.S. Do you think you will...?" # Definitely not get the vaccine | white: 65%, hispanic: 13%, black: 13% # Wait and see | white: 50%, hispanic: 27%, black: 14% # Unvaccinated adults | white: 57%, hispanic: 20%, black: 13% "Partisanship also plays a major role with more than half (58%) of the “definitely not” group…

Some more relevant data here: https://archive.is/RrzbZ >Polling data from the Kaiser Family Foundation released [0] Wednesday morning (week of August 4th) makes obvious the disparity in the importance of each group. It estimates that Black Americans make up about 13 percent of the unvaccinated population and 13 percent of the group that says it will never receive a dose of the vaccine. Republicans, by contrast, make…

What is the usefulness of including race data in polls like this? I'm French and I have little if nothing in common with other "white" people.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#90

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #18
nostromo wrote: post #9

> but vaccine hesitancy — particularly among white Republicans This sort of quip really makes me distrust NPR. White people are more vaccinated than blacks or Latinos, but the journalist couldn't help but try to throw in a dunk on their favorite bogeyman. https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-p...

[deleted]

[deleted]
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