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Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

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Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#81

Post by CrimsonRain »

simondotau wrote: post #63
ethbr0 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers (and users) deserve choice . If you want to pay 30% to Apple to take care of that for you, then you should be able to. If someone else doesn't want to pay 30% to Apple, then they should have that right too. I've lived through both fragmented platforms and unified platforms, and I'll take the former any day. They're messy, but fair and dynamic. And critically, they evolve and allow new competition to emerge…

> If someone else doesn't want to pay 30% to Apple, then they should have that right That right? Are you saying developers should have the right to all of Apple's stuff for free, no matter what? Is Apple not allowed to distribute their tools and libraries under a license of their choosing? Should we ignore licenses altogether? Perhaps I don't want to pay the "cost" associated with use of a GPL-licensed library in my…

Apple has no right to restrict any API usage in the iOS that is running on MY hardware that I fully paid them for.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#82

Post by cm2187 »

swiley wrote: post #69

It’s not about the fees, it’s about Apple dictating what people do with the phones after they’re sold.

Unless I misread the article, it doesn't seem to break the monopoly on app stores, just on payments. I actually asked the question on another thread if anyone knows.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#83

Post by square_usual »

stale2002 wrote: post #25

So, everything else that has happened up to now, could be described as minor losses, for Apple and Google. This is not such a case though. This is a major loss for them. For all the hacker new commenters, who have been commenting on this topic, for the year that the drama has been going on, and were convinced that Apple and Google were going to win this fight.... well you need to re-evaluate what made you think that.…

> For all the hacker new commenters, who have been commenting on this topic, for the year that the drama has been going on, and were convinced that Apple and Google were going to win this fight.... well you need to re-evaluate what made you think that.

To the extent that I've seen this point on HN, it has always been in the context that there is no law in the US which prohibits what Apple or Google are doing, and hence it would be difficult for regulators to win without new laws or rules in place. I'm not American, so I can't say whether those people were right or not, but I think it would've been pretty ridiculous if anyone said there would never be laws against it.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#84

Post by ZoomerCretin »

jaywalk wrote: post #60
dalbasal wrote: post #31

The concessions Apple & Google made to "stave off regulation" are informative in themselves: It also agreed to let developers inform their users about payment options outside the App Store, using the email addresses that users gave them. Google said that it would only take 15 percent of developers' first million dollars instead of 30 percent. Combined with "competition for monopoly" elements like paying Telcoms not t…

Net Neutrality just meant that Google got to shovel YouTube streams onto ISP networks without having to pay. Let's not pretend there were ever any noble intentions behind it.

You think it’s okay for ISPs to double dip on charging their customers for access and then charging their customers’ most popular services (who are frequently competitors of the ISPs) for the privilege of accessing their customers? Why should any ISP think they can charge the source of my bits when I am already paying them for the bandwidth?

https://www.theversed.com/2754/riot-games-seek-court-justice...

Net Neutrality is not just about “shoveling YouTube streams without having to pay.” In one case, an ISP was deliberately dropping packets for a popular online game (which, if you didn’t know, online games are known for requiring very little bandwidth), and extorting the game developer with the loss of ISP’s customers if they did not pay up.

ISPs are monopoly-abusing extortionists. They deserve every bit of ire they receive.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#85

Post by mathnmusic »

simondotau wrote: post #54
Hamuko wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's their code, it's up to them. Well, until the regulators step in (again).

Are you suggesting that regulators can force Apple to give away their stuff for free if they want to participate in that market? That doesn't sound right to me.

No, Apple is free to stop operating in countries with such regulators. No business activity => No violation of competition-related regulations.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#86

Post by metalliqaz »

MDWolinski wrote: post #78

I'm wondering how this will eventually play out if most companies start requiring Apple/Google to allow third-party apps to use their own payment system. The commission fee that Apple charges, 30% is partially to cover operating/marketing etc. Obviously, Apple makes a good profit off the App Store these days, even though Jobs said he'd be happy if it was break even at best. Here's an analogy I've been thinking on abo…

I don't have to go into a Walmart if I want to shop.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#87

Post by alberth »

I wonder if Samsung (HQ in Korea) had influence on this requirement.

EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don’t think Samsung had influence, wouldn’t it be more productive to reply and say so - that way there can be a healthy dialogue on the topic.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#88

Post by traspler »

vbezhenar wrote: post #42
bubblethink wrote: post #12

Is there a better source and the text of the law ? Payment systems are a proxy for the fee since there isn't an explicit publishing fee. It would be quite straightforward for both Apple and Google to charge a publishing fee, which may end up close to the current rent. The larger issue is that there aren't alternative app stores. Apple doesn't allow them at all, and Google severely restricts them at the technical and…

There are plenty of alternative app stores for Android. Google restricts them, but not severely. Android 12 will lift some important restrictions from alternative app stores. I'm not trying to portrait Google as innocent, there's still work to be done. But they are absolutely in different leagues with Apple when it comes to user freedom.

Google allegedly forced Android OEMs to not ship devices with a pre-installed Fortnite / Epic Games Store launcher.

Also forcing users through multiple warning screens and settings until you have finally installed an app might look trivial if you know what you are doing but for everyone else might not be as easy. There are many, many articles about how you should simplify your websites onboarding process to increase the amount of customers so the Android flow is pretty much the anti-thesis to that.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#89

Post by ToruiDev »

MDWolinski wrote: post #78

I'm wondering how this will eventually play out if most companies start requiring Apple/Google to allow third-party apps to use their own payment system. The commission fee that Apple charges, 30% is partially to cover operating/marketing etc. Obviously, Apple makes a good profit off the App Store these days, even though Jobs said he'd be happy if it was break even at best. Here's an analogy I've been thinking on abo…

But at least for apple you already pay a 100$/year fee for them to distribute your apps.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#90

Post by mrtksn »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #81
simondotau wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone else doesn't want to pay 30% to Apple, then they should have that right That right? Are you saying developers should have the right to all of Apple's stuff for free, no matter what? Is Apple not allowed to distribute their tools and libraries under a license of their choosing? Should we ignore licenses altogether? Perhaps I don't want to pay the "cost" associated with use of a GPL-licensed library in my…

Apple has no right to restrict any API usage in the iOS that is running on MY hardware that I fully paid them for.

Apple doesn't do that. The restrictions Apple impose are on distribution(i.e. you can't use Apple's distribution services to distribute your app to the users of that service if Apple don't let you), you can do whatever you like to your own device and Apple can't do anything about it. That's why it's perfectly legal to jailbreak your phone.
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