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Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

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Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#81

Post by behringer »

awsthro00945 wrote: post #61
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone with IBS, it took a long time to get a definitive "IBS" diagnosis from my doctor. IBS is a process of elimination diagnosis. They'll confirm it's not any number of other things, and only after definitively ruling out Crohn's disease and other more serious conditions will they settle on IBS (which I took from my doctor to mean "We don't know.") Now for treatment purposes, they were giving me medica…

I don't know exactly what Amazon asked for in this case, but any time for me in the past at either school, work, or otherwise, when "doctor's note" is mentioned, they aren't asking for a definitive diagnosis. In fact, I've never even seen a doctor's note that specifically said "[name] has influenza/rhinovirus/UTI". It's always been sufficient for the note to just say something like "I am a doctor and [name] was seen…

It absolutely wouldn't. Amazon's next step would be to tell her whatever note she brought isn't good enough and to get on fmla.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#82

Post by bllguo »

nicoffeine wrote: post #56
bllguo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here. there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it and the response seems eminently reasonable. getting a note in 2 months is just not a draconian requirement no matter how it is spun. i have to give benefit of the doubt and assu…

> there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it Are you okay with your employee or client installing screen tracking software on your computer so someone can decide appropriate thresholds for your work and bathroom habits? > I'm sorry but this is the reality if you work a menial job where you are easily replaced. Are we back to c…

i object to those methods but not the concept of appropriate thresholds

did i miss your memo? work can be both essential and menial, they are orthogonal dimensions to me. if a task does not require specialized skills i will call it menial.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#83

Post by mullingitover »

klyrs wrote: post #62
maxk42 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walk-in clinics are affordable and frequently faster than urgent care.

IBS is a diagnosis of last resort. You don't get that from a walk-in clinic, you get that from a months- or years-long quest to eliminate every possible cause, before your doctor throws up their hands and calls it IBS.

Counterpoint: someone I know personally got that diagnosis from a single doctor's visit, so this isn't exactly a hard rule.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#84

Post by bllguo »

s5300 wrote: post #41
bllguo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here. there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it and the response seems eminently reasonable. getting a note in 2 months is just not a draconian requirement no matter how it is spun. i have to give benefit of the doubt and assu…

Nah. Having dealt with this before, getting an actual note explaining things from the doctor treating you, or any doctor you attempt to go to afterwards because the first is literally acting like you don't exist, can seriously take 3-6 months. I can only say, feel lucky or something that you've never had to personally deal with this.

well if this is the case then I will concede. I assumed getting a note is relatively trivial

but I certainly appreciate my good fortune in life to not have to work menial jobs

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#85

Post by [deleted] »

behringer wrote: post #81
awsthro00945 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know exactly what Amazon asked for in this case, but any time for me in the past at either school, work, or otherwise, when "doctor's note" is mentioned, they aren't asking for a definitive diagnosis. In fact, I've never even seen a doctor's note that specifically said "[name] has influenza/rhinovirus/UTI". It's always been sufficient for the note to just say something like "I am a doctor and [name] was seen…

It absolutely wouldn't. Amazon's next step would be to tell her whatever note she brought isn't good enough and to get on fmla.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#86

Post by b9a2cab5 »

mrmuagi wrote: post #67
b9a2cab5 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you've never worked with people who intentionally "use the bathroom" to not work. If you step out of your white collar tech bubble for a moment you'd realize giving _two months_ to give a doctor's note before reprimanding this woman is perfectly reasonable. Blue collar work / retail is not like tech where your output is not necessarily a function of hours worked. In tech you can go to the bathroom 8 ho…

> It sounds like you've never worked with people who intentionally "use the bathroom" to not work. If you step out of your white collar tech bubble for a moment you'd realize giving _two months_ to give a doctor's note before reprimanding this woman is perfectly reasonable. If it's perfectly reasonable, perhaps there's no need for a court case? Or maybe you could concede that there's more details to the story and it…

I took a quick look through your comments. You seem to work in tech and/or IT. Either of which can be considered white collar and neither of which has hourly work you need to get done.

Have you ever worked as a retail worker? Or teacher? Or anything that _isn't_ do your work any time during the day? Or for that matter, have you worked as an frontline IT tech before? If you've done any of these things I think it'd be obvious that this is a completely reasonable case. What would be _unreasonable_ and medical discrimination would be if the woman got fired 5 days after being notified to get a doctor's note. In this case she had 2 months to get a doctor's note, then got written up, then had 5 days to get a doctor's note after _she had already been notified for 2 months_.

Maybe step out of your "big tech and Bezos are evil" bubble for just a moment and consider things objectively. Amazon has plenty of _legitimate_ abuses but this isn't one of them. You seem to believe that all jobs should allow you to behave as if you're a white collar tech worker who can get their work done any time.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#88

Post by CodeWriter23 »

missedthecue wrote: post #52
mypalmike wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they had a primary physician?

Someone diagnosed them with IBS

Does not require a physician to diagnose. Diagnosis is based on casual observation and the cause as yet is unknown.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#89

Post by boublepop »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #40
Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

Speaking as someone with IBS, it took a long time to get a definitive "IBS" diagnosis from my doctor. IBS is a process of elimination diagnosis. They'll confirm it's not any number of other things, and only after definitively ruling out Crohn's disease and other more serious conditions will they settle on IBS (which I took from my doctor to mean "We don't know.") Now for treatment purposes, they were giving me medica…

That still would not prevent you from getting a doctors note within a 2 month timeframe.

You don’t need a full diagnoses for that.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#90

Post by hkt »

mrmuagi wrote: post #34
Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

> Like a fucking human with diginity does.

There isn't enough righteous indignation about this on HN. Thank you. (No sarcasm, there really isn't enough - we need to care more about people's lives.)

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