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Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

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Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#81

Post by adrr »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #13

It's about time. When I learned that applications like YNAB (You Need A Budget) use services like Plaid to connect to my bank account, and that these services literally take my username and password and impersonate me to get my banking data, I was a little sketched out. I use YNAB every day, and having it connected to my bank account is incredibly useful, but if something goes wrong and Plaid loses my money somehow,…

It’s worse than that. I assume Plaid doesn’t scrape bank sites and rely on 3rd parties to bypass the EULAs on bank sites.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#82

Post by munk-a »

lhorie wrote: post #63
version_five wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're talking to me. I'm not arguing for screen scraping. I'm stating my experience as a Canadian that our oligopolies use legislation like this as a way to discourage competition, under the guise of helping users. And they rely on people like you to talk about how great it is that we're all getting a made in Canada open banking solution when what we'll really get is something that makes new entry impossible…

As another canadian, here's something that occurred to me recently: we like to sling around the oligopoly argument when talking about telecoms, but when I bothered to look a bit into it, rather than finding some tightly knit mafia-like boys club, what I found is that the landscape is quite fragmented and messy (e.g. look at the scope of Telus' operations in Ontario vs Quebec, or look at how Sasktel operates, or look…

> The big telecom lobbying argument vs CRTC about how urban markets need to subsidize rural infrastructure costs is not something 95% of canadians like to hear, but it kinda makes sense

For some groups (especially reservations where their location to practice independent governance is government mandated) I can absolutely sympathize - but for most of the rest of rural Canada - uh why? Urban centers like Toronto and Vancouver are already paying property taxes far exceeding rural areas - with the residents paying those taxes also being hit by bigger income tax proportions due to the higher wages in the cities.

There is no allowance for rural Canadians to get subsidized access to live operas and plays - choosing to live in a rural area comes with a general acceptance that those sorts of live performances are always going to be inconvenient and expensive since you'll need to travel to the city to get them. Why are we treating internet significantly different? If you choose to live in the middle of nowhere you can pay the actual cost for a company to maintain a line to your cabin in the woods while enjoying the scenery you're immersed in.

On Monday I've got a hookup guy coming to my place to switch our condo over from Telus to Novus - this will drop our price from 100G/$80 to 300G/$50 along with removing data limits and throttling and probably actually getting closer to the advertised rate (we often get about 15-20 down from Telus right now - I've heard much better things about Novus).

Part of the reason Novus can do this is indeed the fact that it doesn't offer service outside of very dense urban areas - and I'm personally quite okay with that.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#83

Post by [deleted] »

lhorie wrote: post #63
version_five wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're talking to me. I'm not arguing for screen scraping. I'm stating my experience as a Canadian that our oligopolies use legislation like this as a way to discourage competition, under the guise of helping users. And they rely on people like you to talk about how great it is that we're all getting a made in Canada open banking solution when what we'll really get is something that makes new entry impossible…

As another canadian, here's something that occurred to me recently: we like to sling around the oligopoly argument when talking about telecoms, but when I bothered to look a bit into it, rather than finding some tightly knit mafia-like boys club, what I found is that the landscape is quite fragmented and messy (e.g. look at the scope of Telus' operations in Ontario vs Quebec, or look at how Sasktel operates, or look…

[deleted]

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#84

Post by sumedh »

munk-a wrote: post #77
dvt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually kind of crazy how a company was able to build a business out of this and get acquired while doing it, too. If someone would've pitched me the idea, I would've been like "it's doable, but it'll never be a viable business." Goes to show what I know.

I'm not personally surprised that you could find users to buy into this kind of product - I'm amazed that none of the US regulators came down on them hard and killed them dead five+ years ago.

They are probably not doing anything illegal, sure you break the banks terms of service but you the user willingly gives the login credentials to the third party.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#85

Post by 908B64B197 »

lhorie wrote: post #63
version_five wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're talking to me. I'm not arguing for screen scraping. I'm stating my experience as a Canadian that our oligopolies use legislation like this as a way to discourage competition, under the guise of helping users. And they rely on people like you to talk about how great it is that we're all getting a made in Canada open banking solution when what we'll really get is something that makes new entry impossible…

As another canadian, here's something that occurred to me recently: we like to sling around the oligopoly argument when talking about telecoms, but when I bothered to look a bit into it, rather than finding some tightly knit mafia-like boys club, what I found is that the landscape is quite fragmented and messy (e.g. look at the scope of Telus' operations in Ontario vs Quebec, or look at how Sasktel operates, or look…

> The big telecom lobbying argument vs CRTC about how urban markets need to subsidize rural infrastructure costs is not something 95% of canadians like to hear, but it kinda makes sense (They say rural infra simply isn't cost effective because Canada is so expansive, but you expect high speed Internet access in your Muskoka cottage, right?)

That still doesn't explain why internet service is way more expensive in Canada than pretty much everywhere else in the world.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#86

Post by zipline88 »

shakna wrote: post #67
SilverRed wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a system like this in Australia already. The benefit of it is its a read only system so if criminals get access to your api key, they can list your details out but they can't take your money or do much useful. So much better than giving a 3rd party your login details.

Unfortunately, Australia's APIs (for anything useful), also have a high barrier to entry for just anyone looking to build an app on top of them: > To access consumer APIs, you'll need to be accredited by the ACCC and get the customer's consent. Accreditation [0] has a lot of requirements - my paying child support was considered disqualifying. Parts of accreditation make sense, and should keep things more secure, othe…

if anyone has any ideas on utilizing openbanking here in aus, we should get together and make some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#87

Post by 908B64B197 »

munk-a wrote: post #82
lhorie wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another canadian, here's something that occurred to me recently: we like to sling around the oligopoly argument when talking about telecoms, but when I bothered to look a bit into it, rather than finding some tightly knit mafia-like boys club, what I found is that the landscape is quite fragmented and messy (e.g. look at the scope of Telus' operations in Ontario vs Quebec, or look at how Sasktel operates, or look…

> The big telecom lobbying argument vs CRTC about how urban markets need to subsidize rural infrastructure costs is not something 95% of canadians like to hear, but it kinda makes sense For some groups (especially reservations where their location to practice independent governance is government mandated) I can absolutely sympathize - but for most of the rest of rural Canada - uh why? Urban centers like Toronto and V…

> If you choose to live in the middle of nowhere you can pay the actual cost for a company to maintain a line to your cabin in the woods while enjoying the scenery you're immersed in.

When competitors are stopped at the border for dubious pretexts it means that the local monopolies can effectively decide not to wire your property.

Wouldn't it be nice to see an ultra-competitive European carrier laying fiber out there?

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#88

Post by function_seven »

SilverRed wrote: post #38
frosted-flakes wrote: post #13

It's about time. When I learned that applications like YNAB (You Need A Budget) use services like Plaid to connect to my bank account, and that these services literally take my username and password and impersonate me to get my banking data, I was a little sketched out. I use YNAB every day, and having it connected to my bank account is incredibly useful, but if something goes wrong and Plaid loses my money somehow,…

I think the future is that banks/bank apps will do the budgeting stuff themselves. Most bank apps will now break down your monthly spending by categories. My bank app shows me my weekly and monthly spend compared to previous periods, how much I spent in each category, how much I spent at each business, how much I have spent this month so far compared to the same time last month and etc.

I hope not. I have accounts at more than one bank, and need to have the data centralized for it to be useful.

Having a standard and open API across banks, brokerages, and credit providers would be killer.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#89

Post by neom »

munk-a wrote: post #82
lhorie wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another canadian, here's something that occurred to me recently: we like to sling around the oligopoly argument when talking about telecoms, but when I bothered to look a bit into it, rather than finding some tightly knit mafia-like boys club, what I found is that the landscape is quite fragmented and messy (e.g. look at the scope of Telus' operations in Ontario vs Quebec, or look at how Sasktel operates, or look…

> The big telecom lobbying argument vs CRTC about how urban markets need to subsidize rural infrastructure costs is not something 95% of canadians like to hear, but it kinda makes sense For some groups (especially reservations where their location to practice independent governance is government mandated) I can absolutely sympathize - but for most of the rest of rural Canada - uh why? Urban centers like Toronto and V…

Because if we didn't since the 90s, the socioeconomics of Canada would have gotten insanely out of whack? Think of it in terms of access to education and information. As someone from the sticks, I can even grok how it would have played out, it would have been a nightmare. The kids from the pulp and paper towns (that I will remind you, very much helped build the Canada you live in today, the woods are nice sure, but the towns are there because of economics Canada is built on, not just because people want nice scenery) would have been drastically disadvantaged comparatively. I understand this is somewhat less true today, but I still think serving the rural infrastructure is disproportionately expensive, and I don't think we should start asking Canadians to move.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#90

Post by [deleted] »

franga2000 wrote: post #70

As a developer living in a country that has fully implemented "Open Banking", here's a quick setting of expectations for Canadian developers so they don't get too excited as I did when this was first being introduced. Open Banking is not, in fact, open in almost any sense of the world. It is standardised and the standards are freely available ("open"), but other than that, you still need to have an official "blessing…

[deleted]
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