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Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#81

Post by Gibbon1 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #55
IlliOnato wrote: post #37

I read the whole article with sympathetic interest, until the conclusion: > One way to solve the problem of high power devices is simply not to use them -- this is the approach that's followed in sailboats, motorhomes and caravans > Obviously, this strategy implies a change in our way of life. It would mean that electricity is used only for lighting, electronics and refrigeration, while non-electric alternatives are…

You do have to wonder if they’re confused on why this isn’t persuasive to normal people. Go cook outside on a rocket stove[0] and washing clothes by hand every day? Come on. Meanwhile the thing that has actually gotten people out of their cars is the ebike. It turns out it’s much more effective to produce a more convenient and comfortable solution for people rather than just demand that they go back a century or two…

The rocket stove reminds me. I've seen lots of stuff on low tech 'improved' cook stoves for people in developing countries. I think women in those countries would be happier served with a pressure cooker and a two burner induction stove running off solar panels. All horrible high tech, but actually cheap commodities in practice.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#82

Post by tetromino_ »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #71
IlliOnato wrote: post #37

I read the whole article with sympathetic interest, until the conclusion: > One way to solve the problem of high power devices is simply not to use them -- this is the approach that's followed in sailboats, motorhomes and caravans > Obviously, this strategy implies a change in our way of life. It would mean that electricity is used only for lighting, electronics and refrigeration, while non-electric alternatives are…

Low Tech Magazine always writes like this. They always offer some idea which seems interesting on its surface but leaves gaps. They then end the article explaining away the gap with a moral polemic about how we need to change our ways and return to an older way of life. These days I just take the magazine for what it is; a medium containing interesting ideas but overall disingenuous and often impractical. (Though I d…

Re clothes dryers - many Americans don't have much choice. Most apartment buildings in the US prohibit drying clothes on the balcony (to avoid giving the impression that poor people might live there). And some towns and neighborhood HOAs prohibit outside clothes lines even for residents of single family houses.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#83

Post by Karrot_Kream »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #81
ashtonkem wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have to wonder if they’re confused on why this isn’t persuasive to normal people. Go cook outside on a rocket stove[0] and washing clothes by hand every day? Come on. Meanwhile the thing that has actually gotten people out of their cars is the ebike. It turns out it’s much more effective to produce a more convenient and comfortable solution for people rather than just demand that they go back a century or two…

The rocket stove reminds me. I've seen lots of stuff on low tech 'improved' cook stoves for people in developing countries. I think women in those countries would be happier served with a pressure cooker and a two burner induction stove running off solar panels. All horrible high tech, but actually cheap commodities in practice.

An induction hob with a single ring/burner takes anywhere from 1.3-1.8 kWh of energy. It's almost impossible for the type of person that would benefit from a rocket stove to have access to a solar setup which could generate that much energy. Moreover, most of the time these families/individuals are impoverished enough and/or live in places with bad enough infrastructure that even gas for a gas stove isn't available. In these situations, biomass rocket stoves make the most sense.

(Cooking actually takes quite a bit of energy unfortunately and is probably one of the hardest human activities to make carbon neutral. Luckily there's a lot of low-hanging fruit to tackle first before the question of cooking efficiency comes up.)

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#84

Post by OtomotO »

tetromino_ wrote: post #82
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low Tech Magazine always writes like this. They always offer some idea which seems interesting on its surface but leaves gaps. They then end the article explaining away the gap with a moral polemic about how we need to change our ways and return to an older way of life. These days I just take the magazine for what it is; a medium containing interesting ideas but overall disingenuous and often impractical. (Though I d…

Re clothes dryers - many Americans don't have much choice. Most apartment buildings in the US prohibit drying clothes on the balcony (to avoid giving the impression that poor people might live there). And some towns and neighborhood HOAs prohibit outside clothes lines even for residents of single family houses.

TIL... Land of the free my ass

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#85

Post by klondike_ »

DC wiring is already standard in many office buildings in the form of power over Ethernet (PoE). It powers access points, lighting, and infrastructure, and high power variants can do 100W+. Since it's under 50V, the IT guy can install it without a qualified electrician. High power loads like motors and heaters will continue to require AC but I see no reason why small loads can't use PoE. I would love to see it take off for residential use, especially for IoT stuff.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#86

Post by Karrot_Kream »

tetromino_ wrote: post #82
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low Tech Magazine always writes like this. They always offer some idea which seems interesting on its surface but leaves gaps. They then end the article explaining away the gap with a moral polemic about how we need to change our ways and return to an older way of life. These days I just take the magazine for what it is; a medium containing interesting ideas but overall disingenuous and often impractical. (Though I d…

Re clothes dryers - many Americans don't have much choice. Most apartment buildings in the US prohibit drying clothes on the balcony (to avoid giving the impression that poor people might live there). And some towns and neighborhood HOAs prohibit outside clothes lines even for residents of single family houses.

I've usually hung my laundry indoors or on the stairs if I lived in a place with stairs. I realize this requires some space, but usually keeping the clothes in front of the window is enough to have them dry.

I've had one of [1] these for years and it hasn't let me down yet.

[1]: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/frost-drying-rack-indoor-outdoo...

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#87

Post by Karrot_Kream »

OtomotO wrote: post #84
tetromino_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re clothes dryers - many Americans don't have much choice. Most apartment buildings in the US prohibit drying clothes on the balcony (to avoid giving the impression that poor people might live there). And some towns and neighborhood HOAs prohibit outside clothes lines even for residents of single family houses.

TIL... Land of the free my ass

Housing is one of the most heavily restricted activities in the US with institutions like HOAs or rental companies often applying all sorts of restrictions to enforce homogeneity or cultural values.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#88

Post by emacsen »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #71
IlliOnato wrote: post #37

I read the whole article with sympathetic interest, until the conclusion: > One way to solve the problem of high power devices is simply not to use them -- this is the approach that's followed in sailboats, motorhomes and caravans > Obviously, this strategy implies a change in our way of life. It would mean that electricity is used only for lighting, electronics and refrigeration, while non-electric alternatives are…

Low Tech Magazine always writes like this. They always offer some idea which seems interesting on its surface but leaves gaps. They then end the article explaining away the gap with a moral polemic about how we need to change our ways and return to an older way of life. These days I just take the magazine for what it is; a medium containing interesting ideas but overall disingenuous and often impractical. (Though I d…

> Though I do think that Americans uses clothes dryers _much_ more than they should.

There are many reasons for this. Some of them are cultural, and other are legal.

Many Americans simply don't remember drying clothes on a clothes hanger outside, and aren't used to hanging them indoors as many Europeans do. And to be fair, indoor clothing hanging is time consuming in comparison to "transfer clothes from one machine to another".

But what many don't know is that it's often banned in many home owners' associations, and banned in many apartment leases, meaning that hanging your clothes outside is actually a luxury that many simply can't partake in.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#89

Post by eropple »

dheera wrote: post #50
stevenhuang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you need to replace your phone's battery. I get 3 days charge with pretty heavy use from my moto g power. Much of your charging woes would disappear after that, charging only at night.

Here come the excuses. No, I don't. My phone battery dies quickly because I use it. It's on 100% brightness (because you can't see the screen with any less than 100% in the California sun) providing GPS navigation when I'm on bike rides, sometimes recording timelapses and videos for part of it (sounds like what phones were made for, right?). Then I get to some destination and I need to have a Google Meet call with vi…

What you describe isn't far off of my own use of a year-old iPhone 11 and I get a full day and then some.

Maybe Apple's battery life is That Much Better, but I've been led to believe it no longer is.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#90

Post by pomian »

awesomeusername wrote: post #76

To all the detractors here. I lived on a boat for many years which was 12v only and didn't have the mod cons. You adapt pretty quick then hardly think about it. So everyone saying how it's fantasy to expect peoples behaviour to change, just remember if you haven't tried it you are likely highly over estimating how much effort it is, and not aware of many of the unexpected advantages.

I agree. We also built and lived on a sea going boat. You learn a lot about infrastructure to make yourselves independent. As early as the late 70's, we had solar connected to a 12v DC system. That allowed us to run lights, radios, navigation equipment, refrigeration or heating, for as long as we were at sea. Sustainable for over 2 -3 years - Battery life was the limit. {Well, obviously food and water at sea were also a limit.) 2021. That system is still running! everything you need is in there.
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