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Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

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Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#81
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I do not believe that is what the leak revealed. There was a slide that indicated that data from Apple and other companies was now part of the PRISM program. I am not trying to deny or refute Snowden's whistleblowing. I think it is highly likely that PRISM exists. What I dispute are the speculations that the companies listed are complicit. The 2012 date is quite suspicious - it is precisely the same year t…

> I wonder where all of the network cables go? Remember the smiley face in the slide deck?

I do not. It would be helpful to enumerate the specifics of this rather than to play the role of a cheshire cat and say nothing.

(I am independently looking for this, but cannot currently confirm)

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#82
post #38
post #2

I am beginning to wonder if this was the plan all along. Back in 2013 via the Snowden leaks, it was revealed Apple was associated with the NSA domestic surveillance program, PRISM. It appears they (NSA and Apple, et al) pulled out due to the level of negative PR. After 8 years, the intelligence community and tech companies figured out they could sell their surveillance through a thinly veiled effort to “protect X gro…

Sorry, but I do not believe that is what the leak revealed. There was a slide that indicated that data from Apple and other companies was now part of the PRISM program. I am not trying to deny or refute Snowden's whistleblowing. I think it is highly likely that PRISM exists. What I dispute are the speculations that the companies listed are complicit. The 2012 date is quite suspicious - it is precisely the same year t…

> I personally think that PRISM works by externally intercepting data communication lines running to these facilities. Similar to the rumors that international comms links have been tapped. The companies themselves have not participated, but the data path has been compromised.

That wouldn't work without the company being at least passively complicit. Links between datacenters are encrypted. If you want even basic PCI-DSS compliance then links between racks must be encrypted (and a rack that uses unencrypted links must be physically secured). And properly implemented TLS or equivalent (which is table stakes for a company that takes this stuff at all seriously) can't be broken by the NSA directly (and if it could be then everything would be hopeless). Thus the MUSCULAR programme where the NSA put their own equipment in Google's datacenters - that's really the only way you can do it.

Remember how the legal regime in the US works with National Security Letters. Companies can be, and are, required to install these backdoors and required to keep their existence, and the existence of the letter itself, secret. Of course Google, Apple, Facebook, every other company with a significant US presence is in receipt of one of those letters and has installed backdoors - the NSA aren't stupid, what else would those laws and their funding be for?

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#83
post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

>This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported yeah with the small difference that the virus scanner reports to you , whereas this scanner reports to Apple or authorities. The virus scanner's purpose is to alert you of viruses on your machine, the purpose of apple's scanner is to engage in blanket surveillance and treat ordinary users l…

>yeah with the small difference that the virus scanner reports to you

Important to note that in case of the Win 10 Defender and its default settings, executables, and hashes of other files are uploaded to Microsoft automatically.

Much less worse than a csam false positive reporting someone to the authorities, but not really "reporting to you" either.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#84
post #10

Reasonably, there are other criminals using iDevices, why stop at this? Even pre-crime police work may be feasible with AI and advanced pattern recognition.

Pre crime police work would be social services. But increasing funding for those are not popular with conservatives and libertarians.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#85
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just ask your parents or your non-tech friends if it's "ok" to scan people's phones to find those "bad pedophiles" in order to jail then up for the rest of their life. You will be surprised how much support Apple's initiative has in the broad public. My Dad is an old teacher today and was formerly a farmer. My view is he clearly understands these issues and has done since I was a teenager sometime in the last mille…

some people will add terrorist material (i.e. history and chemistry books), other will add extremist material (religious writings), blasphemous material (Christian or Atheist teachings in Saudi Arabia), and other illegal content Apple doesn’t seem to do that covertly, what is wrong with blaming them when they actually do above things? This is a genuine question, because rn I see no issue with automated searching CP t…

> ... what is wrong with blaming them when they actually do above things?

It is unfortunate because although the consequences are seismic the actual problem is subtle and abstract; and difficult to get people excited over. Basically, civilisations that protect the weak against the strong (and in this case, the strongest party is by far the government and the police) are more prosperous. The more the strong are empowered to act against the weak the worse the actual outcome gets. Although not on any one easy axis to measure.

I suspect part of it is that every political movement hinges on a small network of people organising it. These systems are fantastic plausible-deniability screens for powerful people to disrupt and destroy those networks to preserve the status quo. Like, for example, how China tries to operate.

You can see signs of similar systems developing in the US. Note that Trump then Biden were both the targets of official investigations (Trump-Russia, Bidan's son & Ukraine). That isn't going to go away, it'll probably be a long time before we see a president who isn't being investigated for something. The tools that people like Apple are building will be drawn in to the struggle, and not to promote truth or fairness but to destroy their support networks if they aren't friends of the Tim Cooks and Susan Wojcickis of the world. And make no mistake, powerful people aren't looking after your interests because you like the companies they run.

Plus on the way through they are going to be used to target minorities. That part is just sort of traditional, though incidental. Like when they decide to search people's phones for marijuana use but not cocaine and it turns out different racial groups use different drugs.

The only defence is blanket bans on activity that could be used to target people.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#86
post #10

Reasonably, there are other criminals using iDevices, why stop at this? Even pre-crime police work may be feasible with AI and advanced pattern recognition.

Reminds me of anime Psycho-Pass

Prevent crime from happening by checking your vitals to predict the probability of committing crimes

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#87
Let me tell you my perspective as a screeching minority long time Apple user. You may be right. We as professionals that evangelized a lot of people for Apple, don't have power or influence over core target of Apple of today. Yep. But I can assure you that I personally, as my colleagues will do everything in our powers to hurt Apples public image and brand, to give real information to our clients, friends and families. To educate people why smartphone convenience is slavery to the Tech Lords and how in the future all this data will shape a Digital ID in Social Credit System which will render peoples freedom obsolete.

To all apologists, Apple employees and shareholders who will hold their stock after this, I have a simple message: F*ck You. No. Seriously. Go to hell. You are created and supported the monster which will eat you at the end.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#88
post #6

An Apple recruiter recently reached out to me. I am in a fortunate position to turn down opportunities, so I made sure to explain that I am not interested in working for a company that is at the forefront of enabling further infringement on people's privacy. If you are able to push back, do it in any small way that you can.

I don't want to be that guy, but for this job there were lining up 300 more people. Nobody except of a tiny group of nerdy guys (including myself, ofc) is against this apple csam move. Just ask your parents or your non-tech friends if it's "ok" to scan people's phones to find those "bad pedophiles" in order to jail then up for the rest of their life. You will be surprised how much support Apple's initiative has in th…

And so what? People are well within their rights not to work for companies they find unethical.

Yes, it won't make a dent in Apple's finances, but at least that person can sleep better not supporting a company they find immoral

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported yeah with the small difference that the virus scanner reports to you , whereas this scanner reports to Apple or authorities. The virus scanner's purpose is to alert you of viruses on your machine, the purpose of apple's scanner is to engage in blanket surveillance and treat ordinary users l…

>yeah with the small difference that the virus scanner reports to you Important to note that in case of the Win 10 Defender and its default settings, executables, and hashes of other files are uploaded to Microsoft automatically. Much less worse than a csam false positive reporting someone to the authorities, but not really "reporting to you" either.

If Microsoft were explicit that they were trying to look at your personal files and were then going to send the police to your house based on what the hashes were, that would be a big issue to.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#90
post #6

An Apple recruiter recently reached out to me. I am in a fortunate position to turn down opportunities, so I made sure to explain that I am not interested in working for a company that is at the forefront of enabling further infringement on people's privacy. If you are able to push back, do it in any small way that you can.

I don't want to be that guy, but for this job there were lining up 300 more people. Nobody except of a tiny group of nerdy guys (including myself, ofc) is against this apple csam move. Just ask your parents or your non-tech friends if it's "ok" to scan people's phones to find those "bad pedophiles" in order to jail then up for the rest of their life. You will be surprised how much support Apple's initiative has in th…

>Nobody except of a tiny group ...

were against hitler, ussr (inside ussr), unlimited king's powers, religion fanaticism, witch hunting, etc ... in the beginning

today it's surveillance and attempts to legalize such abuses by Apple using some BS cover story intended to create emotional response and this way to fog the real issue: Spyware Engine installation/legalization

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