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Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

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Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#81

Post by freen »

freen wrote: post #79
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Bezos can afford it, the government can afford it. So why don't they do it?

Ask the GOP. Sane countries house their people. It ends of saving huge amounts of money. Single unhoused person with chronic illness can cost a city in excess of a million dollars a year. Some people can’t countenance the “wrong” folks getting help they don’t “deserve”. Or that somehow help will discourage entrepreneurship. If that truly was the case they’d tax inheritances, but it’s not. The cruelty is the point.

Nyc does do it: housing is a right in NYC. You need a place to sleep, we give you one.

It’s not great, because again, GOP, but it’s better than sleeping rough.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#82

Post by guerrilla »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #38

Meanwhile, San Jose is gearing up to clear a much larger camp at West Hedding and Spring streets, near the San Jose airport. That clean-up, which comes at the behest of the Federal Aviation Administration, could displace more than 200 people — some of whom might move to the Apple camp or other nearby camps. You could pluck that right out of some dystopian future novel. I think we live in those worlds now actually - i…

The double-speak of "clean-up" in these articles is just the cherry on top.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#83

Post by freen »

freen wrote: post #79
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Bezos can afford it, the government can afford it. So why don't they do it?

Ask the GOP. Sane countries house their people. It ends of saving huge amounts of money. Single unhoused person with chronic illness can cost a city in excess of a million dollars a year. Some people can’t countenance the “wrong” folks getting help they don’t “deserve”. Or that somehow help will discourage entrepreneurship. If that truly was the case they’d tax inheritances, but it’s not. The cruelty is the point.

The terrible truth is that so much of industry relies on the precariousness of its employees: Walmart is the largest beneficiary of food stamps in the country.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#84

Post by swiley »

epistasis wrote: post #77
freen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are enough empty houses to house every homeless person in the country: there are ~ 19 million empty houses in the country. (in 2019)

Shipping people to other states against their will, and away from their connections, support networks, and whatever else they say need, is both unethical and counterproductive. Who the hell cares about homes nobody wants to live in? Build homes where people want them, don't let a few wealthy assholes hoard the best climate from everyone else. Why defend the interests of rentiers and landlords like this? It helps no o…

We did this in the 50s to Mexico and the result is the modern Mexican state. This is truly one of the worst things you can do.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#85

Post by chrismcb »

awsthro00945 wrote: post #48
hamburgerwah wrote: post #22

I could not conceive of a more poetic example of silicon valley dystopia than the richest entity in the history of the world stymied to come up with a solution to help 35 people suffering on it's throne room doorstep. What a terrible joke silicon valley has become.

I read this, and my first thought was "what are they supposed to do? buy houses for all these people? Yea, Apple could afford it, but then they'll be sending the message that if you want Apple to buy you a house, all you have to do is pitch a tent on their lawn". And then it reminded me of a quote from The West Wing, after Toby uses the president's name to pull some strings for a random homeless person he happened to…

Isn't that what Amazon did? Week they did buy homes, but they provide a homeless shelter

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#86

Post by guerrilla »

lettergram wrote: post #63
sammalloy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A chronically homeless person costs the tax payer an average of $35,578 per year. Costs on average are reduced by 49.5% when they are placed in supportive housing. Supportive housing costs on average $12,800, making the net savings roughly $4,800 per year." This has been known for a long time. It costs the public less to provide direct federal and state-financed housing for the homeless than to keep them on the stre…

People don't become homeless because they run out of resources, they become homeless because they run out of relationships. What you're proposing is me, in another state, city, neighborhood, paying for your states issue(s). My neighborhood, state and city has no homeless issue. In part because we have functioning churches, family units, etc In SF, a portion choose to be homeless (have you ever asked them? I have). Ma…

Your answer is seriously "race mixing bad"?

No, what keeps people homeless here is giving them homes and money for food. This is trivially verifiable.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#87

Post by sp332 »

true_religion wrote: post #71
sp332 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Apple should take actions that lead to a bunch of people dying, but without ethically being responsible for the result. That's not really how it works. It's a shitty situation but we can still hold people accountable for how they decide to react to it.

Nope. I think the government should take action. It should build housing for the homeless and move them out of Apples parking lot. What other solution is there?

Apple is working on it... kinda? https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/11/apple-commits-two-poi... I'm not saying that initiative is bad in itself, but Apple has historically fought tax assessments according to https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/silicon-valley-companies-lik... and that money could have improved things over time instead of forcing a crisis now. They also expanded their offices and built a new headquarters in a place with little housing. https://48hills.org/2015/11/another-16000-apple-workers-look... So they actively made it difficult for the "the government" to work, e.g. deny office expansion that could not be staffed with available housing, or pay for housing expansion.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#88

Post by nradov »

addicted wrote: post #58
isatty wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you’ve identified the problem but the problem is not the responsibility of the owner of said private property.

So if someone dying of thirst lands at my doorstep, yes, it’s not my responsibility to give them a glass of water. Whether it’s my responsibility or not has absolutely no bearing on whether it’s ethical for me to not give them a glass of water. Maybe it is ethical to send them away thirsty. But that would be based on a lot more than whether it’s my responsibility or not. Being ethical isn’t limited to doing just what…

I think most of us would give the dying person a glass of water. Would we also give them food? Clothes? A place to sleep? Money? Job training? It's hard to determine the bounds of our ethical obligations. I don't see a clear answer.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#89

Post by sammalloy »

lettergram wrote: post #63
sammalloy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A chronically homeless person costs the tax payer an average of $35,578 per year. Costs on average are reduced by 49.5% when they are placed in supportive housing. Supportive housing costs on average $12,800, making the net savings roughly $4,800 per year." This has been known for a long time. It costs the public less to provide direct federal and state-financed housing for the homeless than to keep them on the stre…

People don't become homeless because they run out of resources, they become homeless because they run out of relationships. What you're proposing is me, in another state, city, neighborhood, paying for your states issue(s). My neighborhood, state and city has no homeless issue. In part because we have functioning churches, family units, etc In SF, a portion choose to be homeless (have you ever asked them? I have). Ma…

> What you're proposing is me, in another state, city, neighborhood, paying for your states issue(s).

"An Associated Press Fact Check finds...High-tax, traditionally Democratic states (blue), subsidize low-tax, traditionally Republican states (red)..."

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxe...

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#90

Post by CryptoPunk »

guerrilla wrote: post #74
CryptoPunk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple builds tens of millions of products every year that increase productivity. They're not indebted to society, let alone to the US where they are providing billions in salaries and capital appreciation income.

Of course they are, without society enfircing property rights then anyone could do the same. They also owe (as everyone does) society for even being in a state where they can exist and operate. They depend on society exstentially. It's not like they paid for infrastructure, business ecosyatem, the conditions for consumers to consume, etc. Without societ they'd be nothing at all.

Society gets high quality products that enhance productivity, and enormous tax revenue that more than makes up for any public services that could conceivably contribute to their productivity, so of course they're not indebted to society.

>>Without societ they'd be nothing at all.

Society constitutes them as well, so they are also contributing to the existence of this society, which means they are giving as much as they're receiving.

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