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U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

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Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#81

Post by dsr_ »

starkd wrote: post #69
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

I've been following this discussion in Washington and on Hacker News. I'm moderately anti-crypto--I don't buy the pitch but am open to being wrong and believe folks should be free to do what they want with it. I've also been struck by the proliferation of bank-like services without bank-like obligations. This stretches from fractional-reserve and maturity-transforming services like Tether to exchanges/dealers like Bi…

But the power and potential disruption of cryptocurrency is the anonymity. It's the benefits of cash brought to the digital world. I understand the dangers of the criminal element, but underground economies benefit oppressed people when governments turn tyrannical. If you're response to that is only that "it can't happen here", I don't know what to say. They can and do happen faster than anyone realizes. And they are…

If your argument is that governments should not regulate cryptocurrency because the point of cryptocurrency is to evade government regulation, you should expect cryptocurrency to become illegal rather than regulated.

Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#82

Post by csomar »

frankbreetz wrote: post #55

Strangely, crypto has gone up in spite of this news. This seems worse then China banning mining, which caused a pretty significant drop earlier this year. Why would this not effect the market in a similar fashion. As far as I understand it, this effectively bans crypto mining in the US. Am I missing something?

If you think the crypto-market moves on news, then you have missed on some sweet gains. The news effect is getting reduced since every single time it proves that it doesn't matter.

Bitcoin price is lead mainly by retail demand. Speculators are quick to panic on the way down, but the return of retail demand end up in a new bubble. This is mostly the byproduct of lack of faith on the foundations of the price. These effects are less felt now that the market has matured.

Of course this is purely my opinion and observation. So take that with a bag of salt.

Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#83

Post by cblconfederate »

frankbreetz wrote: post #55

Strangely, crypto has gone up in spite of this news. This seems worse then China banning mining, which caused a pretty significant drop earlier this year. Why would this not effect the market in a similar fashion. As far as I understand it, this effectively bans crypto mining in the US. Am I missing something?

Rush to buy before regulatiob kicks in? I mean the whole crypto rallies until now were not because of government help . Until recently banks would close your account if you bought cryptos

Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#84

Post by lukeschlather »

zarzavat wrote: post #38
meepmorp wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and I hate that people shorten cryptocurrency to crypto.

The prefix "crypto" means hidden or disguised in English. Neither cryptocurrency nor cryptography have a monopoly on it. The way people get exercised about this issue you'd think that "cryptography" is the only word in the English language to use the prefix "crypto-".

The thing is that cryptocurrency is really a niche application of cryptography, where cryptography is very broadly used. So it's a little like if people started using "petroleum" to mean petroleum jelly. Sure, nobody is aware of cryptography's effect on their life. But it is a key ingredient in everything including cryptocurrency.

Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#85

Post by dcolkitt »

alksjdalkj wrote: post #50

I don't really follow any cryptocurrency news but wasn't one of the main appeals early on that it would be independent from any governments? Specifically that it could be a currency not subject to the oversight and sanctions of the US treasury? I guess "cryptocurrency" is different from "cryptocurrency industry", but it still seems like the ecosystem as a whole should be more resilient to actions from the US governme…

Cryptocurrency is extremely resilient to government action. Regardless of what happens with this legislation, I can virtually guarantee you that crypto will still exist in a decade. Obviously the market agrees, as the major coins and tokens have reached 3 month highs while this legislation was unfolding.

The reason I oppose hamfisted laws in crypto is the same reason I oppose the War on Drugs. Is the government even remotely competent to eliminate illicit drugs or even reduce the supply of illicit drugs? Not even close. But is the government capable of finding a few poor bastards and ruin their lives to make publicity stunts? Absolutely.

Just like with drug laws, the primary victims are going to be the disadvantaged and disconnected. Just like with drugs, the elites will be able to insulate themselves from the rules. Two out of three of our past presidents suffered no consequences from their admitted illicit drug use, while millions of poor minorities were locked up.

I’m a professional crypto dev, and I’m not sweating this at all. Our venture funded startup can easily afford high powered lawyers to make sure we’re compliant. Now what about the 17 year old hacker who quickly uploads a smart contract that he thinks does something cool, and all of a sudden is looking at two decades in federal prison because Elizabeth Warren wants to nail a sacrificial “shadowy super coder” to the wall.

Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#87

Post by onepointsixC »

frankbreetz wrote: post #64
alksjdalkj wrote: post #50

I don't really follow any cryptocurrency news but wasn't one of the main appeals early on that it would be independent from any governments? Specifically that it could be a currency not subject to the oversight and sanctions of the US treasury? I guess "cryptocurrency" is different from "cryptocurrency industry", but it still seems like the ecosystem as a whole should be more resilient to actions from the US governme…

Governments can't control it in a sense that they can't create more of it and can't sensor transactions(sanctions) . If you think of it as the same idea of gold, the government can't make more it. They can limit transactions to a degree, but they can't really stop one person from handing another person a suitcase full of gold. They can make laws around it, but they will not necessarily be enforced. There is of course…

Governments can control it. In the end of the day, sure they can't control that gold, but moving gold itself is a problem. You can't go to a dealership to buy something with your gold suitcase. In order to do anything useful with that stored wealth you need to convert it to cash and that's where they get you. That's how they control it.

Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#88

Post by jcranmer »

zarzavat wrote: post #51
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

I've been following this discussion in Washington and on Hacker News. I'm moderately anti-crypto--I don't buy the pitch but am open to being wrong and believe folks should be free to do what they want with it. I've also been struck by the proliferation of bank-like services without bank-like obligations. This stretches from fractional-reserve and maturity-transforming services like Tether to exchanges/dealers like Bi…

The entire point of cryptocurrency is precisely to enable bank-like services without bank-like obligations, to enable individuals to be their own bank and manage their own money if they want to. You're right that it's unsurprising that the US Senate does not care about this problem. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that the cryptocurrency world does not care about the US Senate. This will just end up being another…

> The entire point of cryptocurrency is precisely to enable bank-like services without bank-like obligations, to enable individuals to be their own bank and manage their own money if they want to.

From what I understand of the actual cryptocurrency markets, very few people are actually interested in being their own bank. A lot of the cryptocurrency industry seems to be structured around providing bank-like services to cryptocurrency users.

Re: U.S. Senate Vote in Favor of Amendment That Threatens Crypto Industry

#89

Post by woodruffw »

starkd wrote: post #72
logicchains wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a proponent's perspective that's a big point in favour of cryptocurrencies. AML has been completely ineffective; there's absolutely zero evidence to show it's reduced drug usage or terrorism, drug gangs now are richer than ever before. What it has been effective at is making banking and achieving financial privacy way harder for the average individual. AML is like the war on drugs: it makes normal people's lives…

Cryptocurrency is also a hedge against tyranny. There seems to be a naive belief that it can never happen here, just because it never has.

> There seems to be a naive belief that it can never happen here, just because it never has.

I’m sorry, but is the argument here that cryptocurrencies will somehow be instrumental in preventing the rise of fascism? Because that’s what the quote is from, although the chief motivator in the novel is independent journalism, not internet funny money.

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