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Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

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Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#81

Post by WontonDon »

reilly3000 wrote: post #69

I’m not going to say that Elastic has no real competition, but as a whole package it stands alone. It’s speed and versatility definitely differentiate it from other similar systems. The fact that it can be a log aggregator, search engine, personalization system, seim, analytics tool, and forecasting tool make it a lot more useful than typical full-text search systems, often which can’t process aggregations or run in…

As long as they keep innovating to stay number 1, they will do just fine, even against AWS fork or new competitors.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#82

Post by manigandham »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
thedougd wrote: post #4

I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…

It is easy to judge another’s actions from afar when it’s their meal and roof they’re working for. It’s okay for Amazon (a trillion dollar company) to make money off of their work but not themselves? Imho, the problem isn’t “well it’s not open source anymore then.” The problem is people who give more weight to a religion/philosophy than sustainability. Who cares if it’s open source if the people developing it can’t s…

Customers want solutions, not software. Timescale is one vendor that figured this out and is having great success without any other enterprise licenses on the software itself. Others have at least started amplifying their cloud/support/managed offerings.

Elastic didn't, and AWS stepped to give customers what they wanted. And in case anyone wants to argue that it's impossible to compete with AWS, please go ask Snowflake how they built a better product on top of AWS itself and became one of the best SaaS success stories so far.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#83

Post by AmericanChopper »

Barrin92 wrote: post #39
YPPH wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't like it, they shouldn't have licensed their software under a free software license. This was an entirely foreseeable consequence. They only have themselves to blame. The AGPL generally fixes this perceived problem, but means that several large players (like Google) will never touch your code with a ten foot pole, let alone improve it. So, there's some difficult decision-making at the inception stage of…

>If they don't like it, they shouldn't have licensed their software under a free software license They or anyone else are also free to relicense their project, there's nothing wrong with it at all and anything under the old license is still what it was before. It seems kinda strange to demand that someone operate under some license in perpetuity, there is no such rule. Licensing questions don't stop after the incepti…

The lessons that some contributors (myself included) will learn from this, is that it’s now a common bait and switch to build your product with open source contributions, and then relicense it when it’s time to monetise. I used to talk most of my employers into letting me bug fix open source projects that they were having issues with, now I just talk them into maintaining their own forks. The open source “freemium” business model is very clearly a scam at this point.

I also personally can’t stand Elastic, because they charge enterprise rates for support, and then offer open source level support. You’ll come across a show stopping issue, and the support you’ll get is most commonly “why are even trying to do this?”, or “please refer to this issue that’s been stale since 2016”.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#84

Post by mdaniel »

mattmcknight wrote: post #79

People who want open source search should take another look at Solr, it's doing fine.

I don't exactly know why you're getting downvoted, but I will point out that while they play in the same sandbox, this is roughly equivalent to suggesting that someone rewrite their app because Solr and ES have absolutely stellar differences of opinion about the API used to access them, the amount of schema one must provide up-front to the document index, and the amount of operational hoops one must jump through to keep the service alive

Sure, there are about 5-6 open source search engines one could pick from in a greenfield project, with amazing differences of features and maturity, but choosing between Open Search and ElasticSearch is likely a "political" decision, since they are (ahem, mostly) API compatible and have very similar operational needs.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#85

Post by dantheman »

altdataseller wrote: post #70
zucker42 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely possible that the relicense and now this will have the the precisely the opposite effect though. I'm sure the relicense was an attempt to increase Elastic NV's revenues from SaaS by locking out competitors from using their same codebase (from public financial filings, Elastic NV is not profitable so they are probably looking to become so). But open source also attracts new customers and improves the pro…

1) Is outside contribution really important going forward? Most of the Elasticsearch contributors are probably already employed by Elastic. 2) Open source doesn't attract new customers. There's nothing special about having software where anyone can contribute freely, that makes it attractive to customers. There is however, something special in making it free to download, setup and use in your own servers that makes i…

Open source does matter.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#86

Post by thayne »

altdataseller wrote: post #70
zucker42 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely possible that the relicense and now this will have the the precisely the opposite effect though. I'm sure the relicense was an attempt to increase Elastic NV's revenues from SaaS by locking out competitors from using their same codebase (from public financial filings, Elastic NV is not profitable so they are probably looking to become so). But open source also attracts new customers and improves the pro…

1) Is outside contribution really important going forward? Most of the Elasticsearch contributors are probably already employed by Elastic. 2) Open source doesn't attract new customers. There's nothing special about having software where anyone can contribute freely, that makes it attractive to customers. There is however, something special in making it free to download, setup and use in your own servers that makes i…

> There's nothing special about having software where anyone can contribute freely, that makes it attractive to customers.

That may be true for some customers, but certainly not all. Being able to fix a bug or add a feature yourself instead of having to wait for a vendor to do it for you can be very attractive. Especially if you need a feature that would never be accepted upstream, and you have the ability to use your own fork/patchset. That is something my company has done many times, and is a factor when choosing software.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#87

Post by rad_gruchalski »

threeseed wrote: post #58
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a look at YugabyteDB then.

Why would I do that when Elasticsearch is a proven search engine.

I don’t know, maybe you yourself get confused. Why would you say this otherwise:

> I love Postgres but it's "clustering" story is definitely not as user friendly.

Then have a look at YugabyteDB.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#88

Post by erezsh »

tybit wrote: post #49
Barrin92 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they don't like it, they shouldn't have licensed their software under a free software license They or anyone else are also free to relicense their project, there's nothing wrong with it at all and anything under the old license is still what it was before. It seems kinda strange to demand that someone operate under some license in perpetuity, there is no such rule. Licensing questions don't stop after the incepti…

No ones demanding they don’t change, they’re just stating that as users they’ll react accordingly.

You write "accordingly" as if it's obvious what's the correct course of action for a company that's in direct competition with a titan, and any other course of action must disappoint their users.

What would you have them do? Would only their demise appease you?

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#89

Post by that_guy_iain »

thedougd wrote: post #4

I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…

Basically, they make it clear their library doesn’t work with a different data store and thereby avoiding people reporting bugs due to incompatiblities between the two? It seems very reasonable.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#90

Post by pjmlp »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #83
Barrin92 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they don't like it, they shouldn't have licensed their software under a free software license They or anyone else are also free to relicense their project, there's nothing wrong with it at all and anything under the old license is still what it was before. It seems kinda strange to demand that someone operate under some license in perpetuity, there is no such rule. Licensing questions don't stop after the incepti…

The lessons that some contributors (myself included) will learn from this, is that it’s now a common bait and switch to build your product with open source contributions, and then relicense it when it’s time to monetise. I used to talk most of my employers into letting me bug fix open source projects that they were having issues with, now I just talk them into maintaining their own forks. The open source “freemium” b…

It is the return of shareware, as developers realised their parents wouldn't pay forever their housing needs.
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