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What cats do when we’re not looking

theguardian.com

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Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#81

Post by lillecarl »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #77
mykowebhn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feral cats are domesticated cats that have escaped and are no longer considered domesticated. The point is that if it weren't for humans we wouldn't have so many feral cats. Also, feral cats tend to congregate close to human populations. I'm not sure what your point is about equilibriums. Of course equilibria are reached naturally, but with the human factor these equilibria have been distorted beyond any natural capa…

Not at all sure that's sound reasoning. What have humans to do with feral cat populations? Sure a few domesticated cats escape every year, but that just temporarily perturbs the feral population which is self-adjusting.

Probably refering to available resources for feral cats, it decreases with more domesticated cats out hunting.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#82

Post by mykowebhn »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #77
mykowebhn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feral cats are domesticated cats that have escaped and are no longer considered domesticated. The point is that if it weren't for humans we wouldn't have so many feral cats. Also, feral cats tend to congregate close to human populations. I'm not sure what your point is about equilibriums. Of course equilibria are reached naturally, but with the human factor these equilibria have been distorted beyond any natural capa…

Not at all sure that's sound reasoning. What have humans to do with feral cat populations? Sure a few domesticated cats escape every year, but that just temporarily perturbs the feral population which is self-adjusting.

Definition of feral (from google): (especially of an animal) in a wild state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication.

There may have been inter-breeding involved with wild populations, but most, if not all, feral cats have their origins in domesticated, or captive (by humans), cat populations.

Also, have you ever noticed that feral cats tend to congregate near humans? That's because they find it easier to find food from dumpsters, handouts, garbage, etc. This is very similar to other species that rely on humans for their success (rats, corn, cockroaches, crows). This artificially increases their numbers. I say "artificially" because their food source comes indirectly or directly from humans.

So simply from the definition of the word "feral", and not even including the inter-species dynamics between humans and feral cats, humans have everything to do with feral cat populations.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#83

Post by rufus_foreman »

eric4smith wrote: post #4

No need for GPS or cameras. Cats are stone cold hunter killers. Almost brainless too. They kill anything that moves and is edible. We all know cats that sometimes just kill for the sake of killing (practice??) and don’t even eat the prey. It’s like the cats brain is just made for hunting and killing and very little else. Just watch how stupid cats are in cat videos — except when they are hunting. I have a cat at one…

>> They kill anything that moves and is edible

I guess my cat considers me inedible.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#84

Post by notRobot »

BrS96bVxXBLzf5B wrote: post #78
eatbitseveryday wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Necessary for indoor cats? I also don’t really understand why they are wearing a collar when it can break off - info gets lost and you may never find them.

It's a safety mechanism, not an intended outcome. If your cat gets lost ideally you end up with a wandering collared cat. But of the other possibilities, a wandering uncollared cat is preferable to the snagged alternative.

Indeed. Cat with no collar > cat who choked when their collar got caught on a fence.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#85

Post by dwd »

dspillett wrote: post #70
dwd wrote: post #7

There was a number of BBC articles years back on the tracking of cats. The maps of their ranges is quite fascinating: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22567526 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22821639

There were other interesting findings too: in areas with high populations of cats they seem to settle into time-share arrangements with parts of their territory, they are not just purely "this is mine all the time". This all gets messed up when new animals arrive or the habits if existing ones change, but it seems back into a new mostly stable pattern eventually. I wonder what difference more human slaves being home…

The cats got shitty with us being in their territory all the time! We figure into their time-sharing as well, whether we know it or not.

They're not likely to care for us to not be there unless you change their meal time, reduce attention they want or go back to sending them outside all day. Our new feline took a particular liking to one of my boys when he was home from Uni and seemed put out when he left - she took to meowing in his room for the first week.

Dogs however love having the pack always there, and will be really put out as people go back to full-time office work.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#86

Post by dspillett »

dwd wrote: post #85
dspillett wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were other interesting findings too: in areas with high populations of cats they seem to settle into time-share arrangements with parts of their territory, they are not just purely "this is mine all the time". This all gets messed up when new animals arrive or the habits if existing ones change, but it seems back into a new mostly stable pattern eventually. I wonder what difference more human slaves being home…

The cats got shitty with us being in their territory all the time! We figure into their time-sharing as well, whether we know it or not. They're not likely to care for us to not be there unless you change their meal time, reduce attention they want or go back to sending them outside all day. Our new feline took a particular liking to one of my boys when he was home from Uni and seemed put out when he left - she took…

My boss definitely missed her favourite slave being around when I went back to the office after lockdown 1. There have been a couple of long weekends for endurance running events in the last month or so, and she definitely puts on the "where have you been, I've been looking for you, look at me being cute, don't go away again" each time when I get back.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#87

Post by bradknowles »

vidanay wrote: post #20
the-dude wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike dogs, cats domesticate themselves. It is a win-win.

Humans have dogs as companions. Cats have humans as companions.

Dogs have owners. Cats have servants.

My wife and I have four cats in this house. We have no illusions as to what role we perform.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#88

Post by bradknowles »

lamp987 wrote: post #59
eric4smith wrote: post #4

No need for GPS or cameras. Cats are stone cold hunter killers. Almost brainless too. They kill anything that moves and is edible. We all know cats that sometimes just kill for the sake of killing (practice??) and don’t even eat the prey. It’s like the cats brain is just made for hunting and killing and very little else. Just watch how stupid cats are in cat videos — except when they are hunting. I have a cat at one…

Almost brainless? My cat figured out how to open doors and turn off lights, possibly by observing me. Its quite annoying actually...

We have door levers, not knobs. Levers are easier to use, and look prettier. They’re also a lot easier for cats to use.

We have had to baby-proof all of the door levers to all of the rooms we don’t want our cats getting into.

One cat in particular is very long, and can easily just stand up on his hind legs and wrap his paws around the door lever, and then pull. I’ve watched him do it. He was looking at me through the glass door, and moving slowly and deliberately as he did it. As if to say “Hey, dad — you know this thing here above my head? It’s called a door lever. Let me show you how it works.” Yes, he was just a kitten at the time, and still long enough to pull down on door levers.

A cat we had a number of years ago realized that the doors we had in our house in Belgium usually didn’t close too well, and she could reach under the door and pull it open. She did the same thing with cabinets in the kitchen. She taught her daughters how to do the same thing. We had to get a lot better about fully closing and latching our doors, so that she didn’t just pull them open all the time.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#89

Post by bradknowles »

burnished wrote: post #63
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what cats do. That's how bird populations are kept in check. A bird nest has what, 4 or 6 eggs? All those hatchlings are pretty much born to die in the first year. Because next year, the bird population is pretty much the same. Cats can only catch birds when they are plentiful. When the population is back within bounds, cats find birds hard to find. Its a natural feedback cycle, been around for millions of yea…

The part you aren't mentioning is that in your model cat populations decrease when they cant find enough birds, which allows for the birds to repopulate, which allows for the cats to catch them and repopulate. The feedback cycle is broken where the cats have ample food supplied and the cat population no longer depends on the prey population.

There are plenty of outdoor or indoor/outdoor cats that kill for reasons other than food. Some cats just have a strong sense of prey.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#90

Post by burnished »

bradknowles wrote: post #89
burnished wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part you aren't mentioning is that in your model cat populations decrease when they cant find enough birds, which allows for the birds to repopulate, which allows for the cats to catch them and repopulate. The feedback cycle is broken where the cats have ample food supplied and the cat population no longer depends on the prey population.

There are plenty of outdoor or indoor/outdoor cats that kill for reasons other than food. Some cats just have a strong sense of prey.

Yes, thats integral to the point I'm making. Cat populations aren't being modulated by prey specie availability but they are still killing. A healthy ecosystem maintains a balance between predator and prey because their population numbers depend on each other. But cat populations that are being maintained by humans don't have that feature, hence the outsized impact of their predation.
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