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Todo apps are meant for robots

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Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Not wanting to pay them motivates me to not fail.

... or to lie to the app?

Beminder is not for everyone. Personally it has changed my life for the better. Before I didn't have discipline, now I'm impressed with my accomplishments in several areas of my life. From shaving, pushups to 3D design, writing and losing weight. At one point I was keeping track of 21 habits with beeminder, now only 12.

I prefer to pay and still having this amazing tool than losing what I described above.

You can do the same without beeminder. The point is that having a punishment if you don't do what you said you will do is a good motivator.

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#82
For personal (non-work), I've been using a modified version of todo.txt (http://todotxt.org/) text-file format successfully for 2+ years, and found my setup doesn't have some of the problems the article raises (though other problems aren't problems for me).

My tweaks to todo.txt, and some helpful Emacs Lisp, is at: https://www.neilvandyke.org/todotxt/

For work project management, I'm recently using GitLab Issues and Board, with my own labels for urgency and Kanban state. (This isn't quite enough for large project planning, for which I usually use Gantt heavily. But hopefully the next time I need that, there'll be an easy way to link the work breakdown structure and dependencies to all the GitLab-based data capture and workflow the team is doing.)

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#83
My todo app is a checklist in a markdown file. Every morning, I go through the file, pick 3-5 priorities for the day and stick them at the top of the list. I used to do this on paper. I don't like reoccurring tasks because if I don't manually create my priorities every day, I won't do things. If I need to be reminded to do something on a particular day (schedule my annual checkup, etc) I add an all day calendar event.

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#84
post #77

Almost all Todo apps have the problem of showing you stuff that you are incapable of just seeing things you _can accomplish right now_. I think people underestimate the amount of pain that comes from, over and over again, looking at a list of things you can't do anything about at a moment X. The only TODO app that I've found get this at least 95% right is Omnifocus with its billions of settings. Though there's still…

I’d argue it’s not that easy.

Task accomplishable doesn’t say nothing about our energy levels which is somewhat of a buzzword but relevant in the context of task lists.

For example I could have “Call mechanic to set up service” but the person answering the call can be an ass through the phone so it’s never pleasant chat. Or you might be introvert and that would require mental gymnastics or there might be a lunch break at specific time or you could get rerouted to some other time.

Hundreds of little factors comes in and sometime inputting all of them into system (I tried!) requires more effort than just getting stuff out.

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#85

Unfortunately all of the options are bad. I tried to map out the space of info that I need to track in my engineering job: 1) Tasks from emails 2) Meeting notes with details of people who participated 3) Project related tasks that can have a long format and can be tagged/ delegated 4) Scratchpad for unrefined ideas 5) Detailed documentation for completed technical tasks / ideas 6) FIFO list of high priority small dai…

I'm in a very similar boat. My best solution so far has been to use Onenote and Outlook plus paper, but I'm looking for something better. Maybe org-mode or a personal wiki?

In Outlook I mark emails that I want to respond to/deal with later as "unread" or else apply the "followup" flag depending on how much work responding will take. There are downsides but I have so far been able to keep the scheme manageable (single-digit quantities with the unread/followup tags at any given time).

I use a paper notebook, physical sticky notes, and scraps of paper for general notes depending on how ephemeral their importance is.

I use Onenote for meeting notes and a running to-do list, as well as a rough knowledge base, but it's far from perfect:

  - You can organize notes but you are sort of locked into the organization scheme that you start with. If you discover some orthogonal knowledge organization/symmetry across topics, there's not a good way to reorganize. For instance, say a certain topic gets discussed in different contexts in different weekly meetings. If you already have note sections with deep histories for Meeting 1 and for Meeting 2, how do you link instances of Topic A across meetings in some useful way?
  - For to-do lists, it's easy to start with one list of all your tasks, but as these get complicated with subtasks, you might organize them into different sections, and eventually different pages... but now the to-do list is actually spread across fifteen different note sections, and are you really going to read each one at the start of each day?
It strikes me that the central problem is that the tree structure is not the right one for notes. A wiki might be better. However, the portability and convenience of Onenote despite the shortcomings (for my needs) make me hesitant to try anything else.

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#86
post #72

I’ve found the trouble with Todo lists is that you fill them up and then start ignoring them as they are overwhelming. I’ve recently found Beeminder’s GTBee todo list app a good help as it forces you to enter a due date and fines you at least $5 if you don’t complete the task on the due date. That makes me highly motivated to keep checking the list and completing tasks.

If I find my todo list are overwelming, then it is because: 1. A task is not worth doing - delete it. I am using the app so I don't have to remember it, I am not taking orders from it. 2. Not organized well - if I am cleaning the house I don't want to see what I should do for my personal finances; gift buying guides for Christmas and so on. 3. The item is important, but not something I can do something about now. Thi…

The calendar blocking is a really important point I’ve found too, so you make time to do the items in the list.

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... or to lie to the app?

Beminder is not for everyone. Personally it has changed my life for the better. Before I didn't have discipline, now I'm impressed with my accomplishments in several areas of my life. From shaving, pushups to 3D design, writing and losing weight. At one point I was keeping track of 21 habits with beeminder, now only 12. I prefer to pay and still having this amazing tool than losing what I described above. You can do…

I love Beeminder too (the sister app to GTBee). I’ve been trying to reorganise my habits into ones that aren’t “proxy’s” for what I want to really achieve (Eg “invoiced dollars”, rather than “did some client work”)

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#88
> In fact the advanced solution technology lies in the hands of productivity enemies: social media apps and games. Instagram, TikTok and Candy Crush have figured all this out. They know how to make you do something with very little willpower. They know how to present information in a way that’s not overwhelming. They give you rewards for doing things. Hints, nudges, suggestions.

It's true that TODO apps have a lot of bad aspects, but that's no reason to give up and hand yourself over to the exploitative dystopia of global industrial emotional manipulation. That's like hoping to go to hell after you die because you heard the devil makes the trains run on time.

Personally, I think a big part of the appeal TODO apps is the rush of optimism you get from adopting a new system. That's the part that gets people excited, all the marketing is build to whip it up, and it actually makes a positive difference in people's lives, temporarily. Believing you're going to live differently and get more shit down will, in fact, help you get more shit done. But I think we would be better off looking past that when we evaluate productivity apps. You have to be honest and ask yourself, if I am the driving force, if the motivation and belief are coming from my baseline instead of from how I feel pumped up on product marketing, then how useful will the app be? Because that's what you'll get after the first week.

Want regular artificial boosts to your belief in yourself and your optimism about your life? Don't shop for TODO apps. Hop cults, or hire a motivational life coach or something. Do yourself the favor of enjoying some continuity in your productivity tools.

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#89

Unfortunately all of the options are bad. I tried to map out the space of info that I need to track in my engineering job: 1) Tasks from emails 2) Meeting notes with details of people who participated 3) Project related tasks that can have a long format and can be tagged/ delegated 4) Scratchpad for unrefined ideas 5) Detailed documentation for completed technical tasks / ideas 6) FIFO list of high priority small dai…

I'm in a very similar boat. My best solution so far has been to use Onenote and Outlook plus paper, but I'm looking for something better. Maybe org-mode or a personal wiki? In Outlook I mark emails that I want to respond to/deal with later as "unread" or else apply the "followup" flag depending on how much work responding will take. There are downsides but I have so far been able to keep the scheme manageable (single…

I like the personal wiki idea. No clue how it could be integrated with the emails though

Re: Todo apps are meant for robots

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What app do you use? I've yet to find something that works really well with recurring tasks.

Todoist - https://todoist.com

I used it as well. It has its quirks, but I think it addresses a lot of the OPs concerns.
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