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Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

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Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#81
post #65

Copilot was made from stealing code on Github, ignoring the licenses set on repos such as e.g GPLv2, using AI as a trick to license-launder code. Copilot has announced their plans to become a paid service. So this product that would not be possible without public, open-source code will itself be non-public, closed-source, closed-data. It is extracting value from the commons and funneling it to a private company.

So what you're saying is that you have the right to host your code for free, to download it from GitHub for free (no bandwith paid) and to behave like new-age Robin Hood when it comes to being offended because the very same company use that code - not to run it, but analyze it. Stop being entitled, it's seriously hard to participate in any kind of progress with offendable cauliflowers like you.

Conversely, the generous olive branch of free hosting is not a blank check that allows GitHub to use the hosted code for any purpose, especially when that purpose wasn't made clear as part of the terms of the original free hosting offer.

When I uploaded my code to GitHub, it was done so with the understanding that in exchange for the hosting and bandwidth, GitHub was permitted to use the code in a set of limited ways, as spelled out in their terms of service. I understood that I was contributing to building and establishing GitHub's brand as the go-to place for open source collaboration, a brand which they have undoubtedly benefited from.

With Copilot, GitHub has extended that use in a way that was not made clear during that initial contract. Regardless of the legality of this change, it's normal and expected for some users to be "offended". This isn't "being entitled", but a legitimate response to what many perceive as a violation of the norms of this industry.

That doesn't even get to the ambiguous legal questions involved, particularly with licenses that go beyond the typical MIT/GPL licenses. Based on GitHub's statements, it sounds like any public repo was fair game. What does this mean in the context of AGPL and other more restrictive licenses?

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#82
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called "Copilot" and the tagline is "Your AI pair programmer." It's obviously being marketed as more than code suggestion software. It's being marketed as an AI pair programmer. I agree that it is basically just code suggestion software, or like a big autocomplete. But it's definitely being marketed as more.

This sounds almost like Tesla's Autopilot, both in naming and in actual performance.

Ha, I ranted about this two weeks ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27724969

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#83

Copilot was made from stealing code on Github, ignoring the licenses set on repos such as e.g GPLv2, using AI as a trick to license-launder code. Copilot has announced their plans to become a paid service. So this product that would not be possible without public, open-source code will itself be non-public, closed-source, closed-data. It is extracting value from the commons and funneling it to a private company.

Copilot generally (excepting rare cases where it produces snippets verbatim) does not steal code. The GPL restricts distribution, not usage. And (to my knowledge) no open-source license restricts learning from code. I cannot see anyone who doesn't want others to learn from their code ever release code as open-source.

I as an open source author absolutely do not want Microsoft to get richer from using my code, code that I contributed or published for the benefits of other developers.

They took my work, removed my name and trained an advanced pattern matching technique to try to make code like mine and then sell it. It’s so obviously ethically questionable it’s insane.

Developers are absolutely pissed about this, and rightfully so.

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#84
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who uses Copilot is implicitly endorsing this theft. Just like you're endorsing being sponsored and effectively stealing GitHub's bandwith? :) > We have a duty as practitioners in the industry to call it out when we see something wrong. It's wrong both ways . You accepted the service from GitHub, the free one where you get to open your account, host your code, share it etc. What exactly did you expect? To be…

Basically you are saying any product thats free should be able to break the law arbitrarily? Google can decide to post your all email online, your location history for all time, your photos and you would be ok with that because its free? The undoubtedly free DNS server you use can leak all your requests too? You're ok with that? Yes its free, no they did not tell me or ask for my permission before using the code in t…

However you did give them permission to use your code by the fact that you acceded to their terms and conditions[1] when you created an account. IANAL, I don't know if this section would hold to scrutiny in a court of law, but I'm pretty sure this is what their legal team considers to cover them when it comes to training Copilot on code hosted with them.

[1] https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-terms-o...

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#85
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who uses Copilot is implicitly endorsing this theft. Just like you're endorsing being sponsored and effectively stealing GitHub's bandwith? :) > We have a duty as practitioners in the industry to call it out when we see something wrong. It's wrong both ways . You accepted the service from GitHub, the free one where you get to open your account, host your code, share it etc. What exactly did you expect? To be…

Basically you are saying any product thats free should be able to break the law arbitrarily? Google can decide to post your all email online, your location history for all time, your photos and you would be ok with that because its free? The undoubtedly free DNS server you use can leak all your requests too? You're ok with that? Yes its free, no they did not tell me or ask for my permission before using the code in t…

Google actually did do Copilot for Gmail. Nobody noticed though.

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#86
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copilot generally (excepting rare cases where it produces snippets verbatim) does not steal code. The GPL restricts distribution, not usage. And (to my knowledge) no open-source license restricts learning from code. I cannot see anyone who doesn't want others to learn from their code ever release code as open-source.

I as an open source author absolutely do not want Microsoft to get richer from using my code, code that I contributed or published for the benefits of other developers. They took my work, removed my name and trained an advanced pattern matching technique to try to make code like mine and then sell it. It’s so obviously ethically questionable it’s insane. Developers are absolutely pissed about this, and rightfully so.

Then you should have never released it.

Fairly straight forward solution to your very unique problem.

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#87

Copilot was made from stealing code on Github, ignoring the licenses set on repos such as e.g GPLv2, using AI as a trick to license-launder code. Copilot has announced their plans to become a paid service. So this product that would not be possible without public, open-source code will itself be non-public, closed-source, closed-data. It is extracting value from the commons and funneling it to a private company.

Which repo marked as GPLv2 has been used on Copilot? I think the trouble is that some repos marked as MIT/BSD actually contain GPL code.

Not that this excuses GitHub/Microsoft in any way, this was an obvious outcome and they're morally and legally responsible.

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically you are saying any product thats free should be able to break the law arbitrarily? Google can decide to post your all email online, your location history for all time, your photos and you would be ok with that because its free? The undoubtedly free DNS server you use can leak all your requests too? You're ok with that? Yes its free, no they did not tell me or ask for my permission before using the code in t…

However you did give them permission to use your code by the fact that you acceded to their terms and conditions[1] when you created an account. IANAL, I don't know if this section would hold to scrutiny in a court of law, but I'm pretty sure this is what their legal team considers to cover them when it comes to training Copilot on code hosted with them. [1] https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-terms-…

People routinely share code on Github that is not owned or at least not fully owned by them, so they can't really rely only on the ToS.

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#89
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copilot generally (excepting rare cases where it produces snippets verbatim) does not steal code. The GPL restricts distribution, not usage. And (to my knowledge) no open-source license restricts learning from code. I cannot see anyone who doesn't want others to learn from their code ever release code as open-source.

I as an open source author absolutely do not want Microsoft to get richer from using my code, code that I contributed or published for the benefits of other developers. They took my work, removed my name and trained an advanced pattern matching technique to try to make code like mine and then sell it. It’s so obviously ethically questionable it’s insane. Developers are absolutely pissed about this, and rightfully so.

Not even copyleft licenses prohibit somebody from earning money from what you released, and that includes Microsoft. The idea behind free software is that it benefits all users equally, even if other developers get the biggest direct benefit.

The best question to ask yourself is if you would be annoyed as much if a company like Black Duck did a similar training or analysis with their OpenHub (openhub.net)?

I think one could even make a case for training an AI in this manner from the leaked Windows code: copyright law treats these generally as "fair use", though how you gained the copy of the code might still be illegal.

IANAL though :)

Re: Is GitHub Copilot a blessing, or a curse?

#90

Copilot was made from stealing code on Github, ignoring the licenses set on repos such as e.g GPLv2, using AI as a trick to license-launder code. Copilot has announced their plans to become a paid service. So this product that would not be possible without public, open-source code will itself be non-public, closed-source, closed-data. It is extracting value from the commons and funneling it to a private company.

Which repo marked as GPLv2 has been used on Copilot? I think the trouble is that some repos marked as MIT/BSD actually contain GPL code. Not that this excuses GitHub/Microsoft in any way, this was an obvious outcome and they're morally and legally responsible.

According to GitHub support, they didn't exclude any repo based on the license: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27769440
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