Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#81

Post by criddell » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

riffic wrote: post #22

abxytg wrote: post #18

Google also debuted a new Driving Mode on Google Maps that... entirely changes the UI of of the app and several parts of the phone interface itself. I have never had to look at my phone while driving more in my entire life. It's my fault for using the phone, but it very nearly caused 2 accidents for me this weekend as I tried to get google maps to update or display a particular UI. I truly wonder what is going on ove…

> it very nearly caused 2 accidents for me this weekend This wouldn't have been accidental, it would have been fully your own fault for negligence. I'll fully admit this is a pedantic tangent but it's been long acknowledged that "accident" is a problematic word to describe vehicle crashes because it minimizes the agency of a driver and intentional decision making processes that lead up to a crash (for instance, using…

When I was 16, my driver's ed teacher would correct us anytime somebody used the word accident. He insisted on using the word collision instead.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#82

Post by rchaves » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #72

I have always been wondering why searching in bookmarks doesn't search the linked pages. It seems such an obvious feature for a company that makes both a search engine and a browser.

Right? I’ve built an extension exactly to do that, index and search on content. I bookmark many things and never organize it, so search is a must

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#83

Post by sethammons » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

abxytg wrote: post #18

Google also debuted a new Driving Mode on Google Maps that... entirely changes the UI of of the app and several parts of the phone interface itself. I have never had to look at my phone while driving more in my entire life. It's my fault for using the phone, but it very nearly caused 2 accidents for me this weekend as I tried to get google maps to update or display a particular UI. I truly wonder what is going on ove…

I find myself getting more and more disgruntled by what feels like actively hostile UX/UI in so many things. I wonder if anyone at some companies are even reviewing unpackaging their products, using them outside a lab, or ever watching someone use their thing.

I get emails from ServiceNow with zero details about the original ticket, I get shell packaging that makes me want to use power tools to open it, I get user interfaces so overran with calls to action that you can't find what you are looking for, no way to use your voice to correct a text while driving, i cant mute audio while the car is in reverse, and the price scanners at my local safe way are so finicky and track that everything is sitting on a scale and any mess up at all and now you need manual intervention as opposed to the self checkout at Walmart where you can just kinda wave your product near the scanner and it finds it and it doesn't yell at you when you put bags in your cart to make room for other purchases, and the list goes on.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#84

Post by Ristovski » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #36

Could we use this as a place to suggest alternatives to Google Maps? I have tried OpenStreetMaps (albeit 5+years ago) and couldn't search for an address. So if that's improved I'd like to know. I don't need/want "find X near me" or fluff like "what restaurant's are open right now?". All I want is navigation between current location and target address.

Today I found about Organic Maps[0], and it seems like a viable alternative to Google Maps, albeit with some annoying quirks.

It is offline - meaning you download the areas you are interested in first, after which all the data is available fully offline (including stuff like directions, metro maps etc). The interface takes a bit to get used to, but the biggest let down is the fact that you can't edit a route in the route planner - you need to start all over again (selecting start/destination, no way to modify either).

[0] - https://f-droid.org/en/packages/app.organicmaps/ (also available on Play Store)

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#85

Post by marcinzm » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

EForEndeavour wrote: post #71

gweinberg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even think it's about organization, more aesthetic sensibilities. Why would anyone want to have special folder icons? "Because it looks nice" is the only possibility that occurs to me. I probably have over 1000 bookmarks myself, but I can't think of why I would want to "tag" a bookmark. Tags can be useful for finding new content, but if I bookmark a sit I probably know enough about it that I wouldn;t benefit…

The benefit of tags is that a single item can have multiple tags, so you're no longer constrained by having to decide on a specific folder hierarchy to organize them in. You can replace "folders" with tags entirely and still use tags as folders if you want, with the option of storing an item "in multiple folders" (give it multiple tags). Gmail has worked like this for a while: the inbox is just a filter which display…

I suspect it's exactly because GMail supports it. Their data indicates that it's not a user friendly feature for the majority of users (ie: why labels can be nested since 2011) but it's grandfathered into GMail. GMail as I see it began with pure tags, spent a lot of effort trying to get people to use them and then ended up with quasi-folders.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#86

Post by riffic » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #76

RC_ITR wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is not the way to win that culture war. Agree that using phones while driving is generally bad, but implying that it is irresponsible to use turn-by-turn (and suggesting the alternative of just knowing where you are) is just more likely to make people ignore the problem all together.

I've seen this "accident" redefinition around before, it looks to me like some silly armchair pedantry, combining the sports of redefining words and judging others. We have courts that can judge culpability / responsibility and decide if a collision was a no fault accident or something negligent, deliberate, whatever. But we also have these neo-political thugs that want to try and use language to manipulate and defin…

It's not a redefinition- it's an acknowledgment of the actual definition of the word.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#87

Post by abxytg » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

riffic wrote: post #22

abxytg wrote: post #18

Google also debuted a new Driving Mode on Google Maps that... entirely changes the UI of of the app and several parts of the phone interface itself. I have never had to look at my phone while driving more in my entire life. It's my fault for using the phone, but it very nearly caused 2 accidents for me this weekend as I tried to get google maps to update or display a particular UI. I truly wonder what is going on ove…

> it very nearly caused 2 accidents for me this weekend This wouldn't have been accidental, it would have been fully your own fault for negligence. I'll fully admit this is a pedantic tangent but it's been long acknowledged that "accident" is a problematic word to describe vehicle crashes because it minimizes the agency of a driver and intentional decision making processes that lead up to a crash (for instance, using…

I was gonna put this comment deep down the chain but Ill just leave it top level for everyone who is worked up about me using the normal phrase "car accident" to describe an incident where I would have been 100% at fault for using my phone.

I agree that I as the driver would have been at fault in an accident. Car accident is a really common thing to call it even when the person naming the incident is 100% at fault and knows it. I would have been 100% at fault and I know that.

Still, it's hard not to get frustrated when previously safe activities become unsafe because of a UI update that was ostensibly made to increase safety.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#88

Post by sethammons » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

rchaves wrote: post #82

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #72

I have always been wondering why searching in bookmarks doesn't search the linked pages. It seems such an obvious feature for a company that makes both a search engine and a browser.

Right? I’ve built an extension exactly to do that, index and search on content. I bookmark many things and never organize it, so search is a must

I want a personal search engine that considers images, docs, and websites I've been to. "Shit, I was reading something about write ahead logs; where was that..." or "there was a funny picture of a guy with a bar of soap I saw 6mo ago that I want to share now."

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#89

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

H8crilA wrote: post #13

Or, you know, they happen to have a pretty good search solution and don't want to spend time and risk building something else. Large organizations nearly cannot change course, that's why the blowups are so spectacular and seem so dumb (ex: Kodak).

    Or, you know, they happen to have a pretty good 
    search solution and don't want to spend time 
    and risk building something else

You wrote "or" as if this was an alternative conclusion. However, this is essentially identical to the thesis of the linked article:

    Google’s core business is still search. By 
    neglecting UI and design for these products, 
    Google corals user behavior into a “search-first” 
    mentality. The more disorganized you become, the 
    more reliant you become on search, and Google 
    benefits.

If it helps, I think you're both right. =)

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#90

Post by twhb » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

rednalexa wrote: post #62

twhb wrote: post #55

I’ve noticed the inverse: when I replaced the Chrome new tab page with a custom .html file, I suddenly found myself using Google Search much less, using Google URL suggestions much less, and syncing less data to Google servers. The difference between a useless new tab page and a decent one had a real impact on my habits. Similarly, when I switched from Google Maps to Apple Maps, the favorites UI was enough better tha…

What did you replace your tab homepage with? Anything in particular to call out?

I wrote my own local .html file, in a local unpackaged extension for Chrome to accept it. It was just four columns of links with favicons and multiple headings per column, and inline inputs to quickly search different sites, and modifier-less keyboard shortcuts like “h” so that you could hit Ctrl-T H to go to HN. The trick, if you can call it that, was that the layout was clear enough that you could pick between 30-50 options in a second or two once you’re used to it.

I considered polishing it for publication, but I think that what made it so good for me is I made it specific to my needs. Besides, I’m off Chrome now, and they fixed the bug I was using to steal focus from the URL bar to make shortcuts work.