Why North America's killer heat scares me • Hacker News Board

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#81

Post by firestarter223 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

If you point out recent coldness records, you will be lectured about the difference between weather and climate. I think the real issue may be the human delusion that things staying the same is normal (perhaps because of the short life span of humans), and more recently in scientific terms, that averages are normal.

About this article I find it odd that it cites Thatcher, of all people. Surely the information she used in the 80ies is outdated by now, and she presumably never was a climate researcher.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#82

Post by danparsonson » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #32

A few years ago we would make fun of people who questioned global warming when it snowed… now we claim it is in fact global warming when it’s hot out? Edit: Politicization of individual weather events makes way for bad science no matter how extreme. In general, individual extreme weather events are not evidence of climate change and it is my opinion that everyone sounds stupid when they politicize them. Instead we sh…

A more energetic atmosphere results in more energetic weather - some will be cold, some will be hot, as weather always is, but more so, because more energy. Hurricanes and thunderstorms start with warm air but they can create hailstones. The weather is complex. I can't believe we still need to explain this stuff.

More heat energy trapped in the atmosphere results in more chaotic weather. But 'global chaosing' didn't have the same ring to it when we needed to coin a term.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#83

Post by nicolas_t » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #23

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

I sympathize with and share your exhaustion, but I force myself to pay attention to these stories. They remind me why Climate Change is always my #1 priority when voting in elections, and when thinking about the world writ large. There was an editorial in The Atlantic a couple of years ago—which I now can’t seem to find—titled something like “We should be covering climate change like it’s the only story that matters”…

They remind me why Climate Change is always my #1 priority when voting in elections > The problem I always face is that I want to vote for a party that want to do something against climate change but the party that claims to be ecologist wants to get away from nuclear without any real plans like they did in Germany. I believe that right now, we should rely on nuclear power and that it's the only way in the short to medium term to get out of the crisis.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#84

Post by jeffbee » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

taylorlapeyre wrote: post #47

I recommend the book “Unsettled” by Steven Koonan for a more empirical look at how these computer models work, and the deficiencies of trying to predict catastrophe with them. For instance, every climate model is wildly off when it tries to predict the climate changes starting in 1950. This article reads like a typical scare piece. The truth is, there’s just so many feedback loops in climate that we just don’t know w…

Koonin's book is highly misleading. You'd be better off spending your time reading IPCC reports, or, frankly, staring at a wall and picking your nose, than reading that contrarian drivel.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/that-obama-scient...

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#85

Post by howmayiannoyyou » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #23

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

I sympathize with and share your exhaustion, but I force myself to pay attention to these stories. They remind me why Climate Change is always my #1 priority when voting in elections, and when thinking about the world writ large. There was an editorial in The Atlantic a couple of years ago—which I now can’t seem to find—titled something like “We should be covering climate change like it’s the only story that matters”…

| Climate Change is always my #1 priority when voting in elections

If every climate change candidate you favored for won in the US and Canada the impact on climate would be near zero. Why? Because China, Vietnam, India and Indonesia are now the majority contributors to emissions and they don't care about your agenda.

Such are the unintended consequences of progressive agendas. We regulated 'dirty' businesses out of existence (mostly) in North America and in so doing gave up our influence over how those industries operate.

And, no, we cannot coerce compliance via tariffs or sanctions. You cannot manufacture drugs, chemicals, electronics and other critical societal goods today without inputs from polluting countries.

The lack of dimensionality in progressive political agendas is disheartening and dangerous.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#86

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #37

JohnWhigham wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most consumer-facing plastics need to go. They're one of the major catalysts, if not the catalyst for our hyperconsumerist habits. Go back to glass bottles for things. Give subsidies to companies that use glass for inventory loss and such. Bring back the milkman who refills your empty jugs.

>Go back to glass bottles for things. Give subsidies to companies that use glass for inventory loss and such. Bring back the milkman who refills your empty jugs. Shouldn't we tax the externalities of plastic and let the market decide whether it's worth it? In your example of using glass bottles: sure it gets rid of plastic, but what about the costs of glass? eg. increased weight or energy/water needed to clean them.…

They already have filtered water refill stations in some grocery stores, they could theoretically do the same for milk (and other products) without bringing back delivery people.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#87

Post by matsemann » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

> For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day

That's why it has to be solved by going political. Capitalism wont make companies care unless they are forced to pay for their pollution with emission taxes or whatever.

And in the same vein, a few persons driving a bit less wont matter. Instead ICE vehicles could have been basically forbidden. Of course, all this comes at a cost of somewhat limiting people's "freedom", which makes it so hard to get support for.

So a better way is policies that makes it the "rational choice" to do the right thing. Like building less roads and making stuff more walkable or reachable by public transit. That will have a far greater effect than someone voluntarily giving up their car with the status quo.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#88

Post by partiallypro » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

Also the US, Germany etc could all cut their carbon emissions drastically and it wouldn't even matter because China and India dwarf any small change by the West. Not only are you powerless, so are most countries, even the most powerful ones. What is tiresome is that the US, etc is supposed to do something drastic which would barely have any effect while China builds new coal plants constantly. They run over 50% of all plants globally. https://e360.yale.edu/features/despite-pledges-to-cut-emissi...

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#89

Post by CubsFan1060 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #16

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

> For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Tangential, but recycling is much less effective the reduced consumption. I think the problem with policy makers not moving on this front is a reflection of people not doing so. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to make people even believe in something that would require them to sacrifice their lifestyle, let alone actually commit to doing…

People are very good at making small changes that make them feel good, but don't actually impact their lifestyle or require any sacrifice.

Paper straws? Not a bad thing, but if you really care about the environment, using a paper straw while at a bar in country on the other side of the world that you flew to is not helpful.

Additionally, people like to see the problem as "out there". i.e. my recycling is pointless because a factory undoes it. Well, the factory is building something... that you are buying. If the factory building (let's say cars) doesn't have anyone to sell the cars to, they aren't going to continue building them.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#90

Post by peytn » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #16

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

> For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Tangential, but recycling is much less effective the reduced consumption. I think the problem with policy makers not moving on this front is a reflection of people not doing so. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to make people even believe in something that would require them to sacrifice their lifestyle, let alone actually commit to doing…

> the continued talk about climate change is necessary

That’s been going on for fifty years at least. Personally I think we should try to come up with solutions that are more attractive to people instead of pushing the same tired asceticism stuff.

Billions of people aspire to drive a Tesla. Let’s do more of that.