Skimmed the article but failed to see any evidence for a zoonotic origin. Did I miss it?
The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
81–90 of 233 posts
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#82As far as I'm concerned it's largely irrelevant, because the real question is how the governments all handled the Covid crisis, once it was out in the open.
I struggle to understand this thinking. If (and I don’t know) this was a leak of a gain-of-function modified virus, it’s a scientific experiment that killed 10 million people.
We need to know so we don’t do it again.
I’m not concerned about whether the car driver was drunk, I’m more concerned about how the paramedics responded to the crash.
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would argue the exact opposite: the lab leak theory is intentionally downplayed to protect China/relations with China. There are a lot of coincidences that make a lab leak a real possibility. It is possible those are all coincidences and the virus is of natural origin, but it is also possible that those are not coincidences and the virus originates from a lab leak. Most likely we will never know since virus origin…
No gain in truth, let's just lie. Yeah, I think my government says the same things about UFOs. It's working out really well, for the past 80 years. We should have the truth so we can be abreast of what is possible in this world. For example, if actual engineers knew that Mach 10 UFOs existed, they'd probably be working on next-generation propulsion systems. And as for the lab leak, those in biological research would…
>as for the lab leak, those in biological research would be a little bit more careful.
You say this as if you know that they're purposefully not being careful or something.
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Governments really need to start getting their shit together and stop blaming each other for their own mishandling (this will never happen I know). There is no point in trying to blame each other or cook up new regulations (enforcing regulation, particularly international regulation is just never going to happen). Quite frankly,most governments should seriously start considering how they will defend their citizens ag…
The biggest thing that made the pandemic so bad outside of china was large fractions of the population not taking it seriously. That said this pandemic was objectively not that bad by historical standards.
Actually, I would see this as a shifting of blame from the government's perspective. Anyone who runs a government should know that legislation will be broken. People will not comply with orders. Thus the government should implement extremely simple and transparent legislation - something that most governments tend not to do. This legislation should be possible to enforce. One of the best ways to gain empathy is to involve citizens in the process. Rather than blame the citizens, start by thanking those who do follow orders. Involve citizens in the process. I'm sure we could have used a lot more contact tracers and swabbers during the pandemic, how about training unemployed citizens and using them for this task?
I live in Singapore where due to our size and wealth we have been able to manage the pandemic, arguably better than most countries. Its not only the fact that Singapore enforces legislation that helped us. There are many instances where legislation has been broken, and not all cases will be prosecuted. But one thing that worked well is the government treated us well. The moment they announced a "circuit breaker" (not lockdown cause that sounds scary) the government accompanied that with multiple payouts through the year to ensure people have basic sustenance. Further, the prime minister thanked us for complying with orders rather than picking on the few that did not comply with orders. Also we lived though SARS, and every now and then get scares from the Avian Flu so pandemic response is something we have lready been conditioned bu.
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Governments really need to start getting their shit together and stop blaming each other for their own mishandling (this will never happen I know). There is no point in trying to blame each other or cook up new regulations (enforcing regulation, particularly international regulation is just never going to happen). Quite frankly,most governments should seriously start considering how they will defend their citizens ag…
The biggest thing that made the pandemic so bad outside of china was large fractions of the population not taking it seriously. That said this pandemic was objectively not that bad by historical standards.
I want to believe this. With how varied the level of reaction was in the states, coupled with how spread the impact was, I'm not sure we can say just yet.
Even the places that were heralded as amazing are starting to fall. I see Vietnam is on a rise now. Thailand? Who is left?
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Governments really need to start getting their shit together and stop blaming each other for their own mishandling (this will never happen I know). There is no point in trying to blame each other or cook up new regulations (enforcing regulation, particularly international regulation is just never going to happen). Quite frankly,most governments should seriously start considering how they will defend their citizens ag…
The biggest thing that made the pandemic so bad outside of china was large fractions of the population not taking it seriously. That said this pandemic was objectively not that bad by historical standards.
The US was a major source of anti vaccination FUD. And while in the US vaccination is stalling because of "muh freedom" EU governments developed an app that stops unvaccinated people from entering restaurants and airplanes. The latest 3D chess move was letting children get the jab without their parents permission.
I was seriously worried about our civilization for a moment but sanity prevailed. We will be at 90% soon.
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being a scientist myself, I did that. But it could simply not understand how - in early 2020! - "the scientist" could be so sure and demonized the lab leak theory so fervently. And now in mid-2021, one of the few things that we know for sure is that some of the key scientists in the "It must be natural" camp have ties with the WIV and thus a strong conflict of interest that they did not disclose. And then of course,…
What do you mean "did not disclose", most scientists that had connections with WIV were pretty open about it.
Author of the Lancet paper did not disclose ties to WIV
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/under-fire-lancet-...
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#88Skimmed the article but failed to see any evidence for a zoonotic origin. Did I miss it?
There is no real case made for zoonotic origin in this article. The tone of the article exhibits some bias and spurious logic in the support of a zoonotic origin
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being a scientist myself, I did that. But it could simply not understand how - in early 2020! - "the scientist" could be so sure and demonized the lab leak theory so fervently. And now in mid-2021, one of the few things that we know for sure is that some of the key scientists in the "It must be natural" camp have ties with the WIV and thus a strong conflict of interest that they did not disclose. And then of course,…
What do you mean "did not disclose", most scientists that had connections with WIV were pretty open about it.
Unfortunately not. And Lancet and Nature admit it now. Here is the Lancet update from 2021:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
More info on the same topic: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-...
Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
The biggest thing that made the pandemic so bad outside of china was large fractions of the population not taking it seriously. That said this pandemic was objectively not that bad by historical standards.
Actually, I would see this as a shifting of blame from the government's perspective. Anyone who runs a government should know that legislation will be broken. People will not comply with orders. Thus the government should implement extremely simple and transparent legislation - something that most governments tend not to do. This legislation should be possible to enforce. One of the best ways to gain empathy is to in…
My point was not to assign blame but rather observe that the difference in the way the popuations reacted. Western populations likely did not take the pandemic as seriously as say China or Japan because of mixed messages from government, conspiratorial thinking, and exceptionalism.
For conspiratorial thinking have a look at godlikeproductions.com
countless threads about virus fake, virus harmless, masks don't work, vaccines kill. I am confident that godlikeproductions.com has killed far more people via covid than gab or parler did through "insurrection" or racism. And yet cloudflare continues to provide services to godlikeproductions.com It is almost as if they don't care as long as those dying are not san francisco elites.