How to Work Hard • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Work Hard

#81

Post by newacct583 » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

wantsanagent wrote: post #40

"Natural ability" is a cop-out and PG should know better. It'd be fine if this came with a disclaimer, "we don't know what natural ability is and the more we learn the more complex and diverse this umbrella term becomes." But taking it at face value is fuzzy thinking. It feels like this was included to hedge his bets. The Polgar sisters(1) serve as evidence that while "natural ability" may be a thing it's even less i…

Is anyone else distressed by pg's sudden turn to these sorts of para-culture-war issues? He's gotten increasingly anti-woke over the past year or two and it's starting to leak into sloppy argumentation like this.

In decades past, he'd discuss similar issues ("how to identify a good hacker", stuff like that), but the focus was on the talent and what it meant and how it worked. Now... suddenly this kind of genetic stratification is just a given? Not a good smell.

Re: How to Work Hard

#82

Post by johnwheeler » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #30

The true ah-ha moment comes when you finally realize how much bullshit this is. "Hard work" is the mantra that keeps you a slave. "Success stories" are the tasty carrots that keep you toiling away your best years enriching others in pursuit of the things you're supposed to seek in life: Power, success, status. "Life hacks" are little dopamine hits to keep your eye on the carrot. And the kicker is that those few who a…

This is bullshit. This is what people who’ve failed tell themselves to rationalize that failure.

People who’ve succeeded at achieving ambitious goals are able to look at success from both vantage points: from having yet to succeed and succeeding. You’ll hardly ever, if ever, hear them say it’s solely the consequence of having the right networks and being lucky.

Sure some luck is involved, but most of it is attitude, and this is NOT the attitude.

I say thank God for people with this faulty perspective. It makes it easier to succeed when the playing field is full of people who’ve told themselves it’s futile to even try.

Re: How to Work Hard

#83

Post by Forge36 » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

unklefolk wrote: post #55

Regarding the "work hard in your 20s" advice. I took the approach that in your 20s you are still forming, still growing, still malleable. The experiences you have in your 20s will have a disproportionate effect on the kind of person you end up being. Therefore, you have to think about what environment, what experiences you want to foster that growth in. I would suggest optimizing for variety and new experiences is a…

Work hard at learning?

Re: How to Work Hard

#84

Post by PragmaticPulp » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #44

Hard work can be good, but only if you own a substantial capital interest in the company/result. But if you can hire people to do it for you, then you can reap the benefits and live a life worth living. If you are just part of the labor and not the capital, then there really isn't an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise. If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in…

> If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in their 20s that they would be millionaires or billionaires

Billionaire isn’t a realistic goal, but millionaire is a common outcome for software developers who work hard through their 20s and 30s now. It doesn’t even require a FAANG job or living in a super expensive city any more, just wise job selection, a reasonable amount of financial savvy and budget adherence, and a deliberate effort to work on your career path.

You don’t need to own substantial equity in a company in your 20s to have a reason to work hard, as long as you’re doing work that builds your skill set, reputation, and network. Everything you do (or don’t do) has some impact on your persona capital over time.

Working hard in the mailroom or stocking shelves at a grocery store isn’t going to translate into a successful software career, but making an impact and helping people get things done at several companies through your 20s is the easiest way to build a strong network that opens doors in your 30s and beyond

Re: How to Work Hard

#85

Post by temp8964 » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #44

Hard work can be good, but only if you own a substantial capital interest in the company/result. But if you can hire people to do it for you, then you can reap the benefits and live a life worth living. If you are just part of the labor and not the capital, then there really isn't an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise. If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in…

What you said is simply not true. There are countless people work on different positions in different fields are enjoying hard work as part of their life.

If you read the essay through, he never said "hard work == long hours of work". He explicitly wrote "Trying hard doesn't mean constantly pushing yourself to work, though."

Re: How to Work Hard

#86

Post by hikingsimulator » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #57

nickelcitymario wrote: post #34

> I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless. The arrogance! This is one of my pet peeves at work: When someone looks at another person's work and judges its value or difficulty. "That's easy." "That's pointless." Ugh. Everyone else's job looks easy and/or po…

The author is right. Gender studies, for example, is a pointless degree. You certainly have a point about not being quick to judge, or overly dismissive, but there are certain things in life that are genuinely pointless, even in education.

Anthropologic, literature, and historical research endeavors, even -- and in all likelihood especially -- when they intersect, can have a lot of value in many fields of the humanities, and beyond. They can inform our societal, political and economic prospects, and shine a light on what we usually don't even acknowledge.

It's not because it doesn't impact your field/industry, isn't marketable and profitable, or because your politics don't comingle with them, that such studies are pointless or useless.

Handwaving humanities on the premise that they are humanities is just another very stereotypical show of STEM arrogance.

Re: How to Work Hard

#87

Post by borski » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

jasperry wrote: post #25

Maybe the world also needs people who are not so achievement-driven, who act as a kind of lubricant in the machine of society by making the environment around themselves lighter and more pleasant. And people who are that way should learn to value themselves and not feel guilty for not being as driven as some. A world where everyone is a nose-to-the-grindstone overachiever seems like a pretty dreary one to live in.

It does, and you’re right. Not everyone has to work hard, and those people are important too.

But: those people aren’t the folks for whom this essay is written.

Re: How to Work Hard

#88

Post by gmadsen » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #44

Hard work can be good, but only if you own a substantial capital interest in the company/result. But if you can hire people to do it for you, then you can reap the benefits and live a life worth living. If you are just part of the labor and not the capital, then there really isn't an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise. If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in…

if you are actually doing software 12+ hours a day for a decade, I find it hard you wouldn't find great success.

unless you spend none of that time improving and just doing the same thing you learned in the first year, you will become an expert. Experts are well rewarded for their skills

Re: How to Work Hard

#89

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

temp8964 wrote: post #65

leokennis wrote: post #19

> There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. You can do pretty well with just two, but to do the best work you need all three: you need great natural ability and to have practiced a lot and to be trying very hard. I'd like to add that it is more than fine to not do great work. If you like to spend a lot of time with your kids and tend to your vegetable patch, by all means only t…

PG never said you should maximize for great work. The essay is about "how to work hard", not "work hard is the only purpose of your life". You are missing the point here. In addition, you mistakenly exclude great work / achievement from happiness. Spending time with your kids is great, tending your vegetable patch is great, doing great work is also great. Life is not a single purpose process. Happiness is not a singl…

I don't think the person you're responding to is missing the point. Rather, they are making another, adjacent point. Our culture glorifies hard work and financial success (and excess) to what some believe is an unhealthy degree. It's worth noting almost anywhere hard work is brought up that it should be within the context of the values you hold for the other aspects of your life.

I will say that it is better to do great work than good work all other things being equal. But other things aren't necessarily equal. I would not want to have the discomfort with idleness that the author of this blog post lauds, for example. Although, if you do have that and are pleased to, then good for you!

Re: How to Work Hard

#90

Post by dionidium » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

Y_Y wrote: post #16

Doesn't this sound shit though? If Bill Gates is so smart why did he have to work so much? Did he like coding and management more than days off? If a life of hard work is needed to get you into heaven that's fine. Or if anything less would mean you and your dependants going hungry. But once your basic needs are met then it's irrational not to start spending time on all of the other things that life has to offer. I fe…

Further, the thing about Bill Gates is that he can't not be Bill Gates. Whatever drove Bill Gates to work as hard as he did, he probably had no real choice. If you have the drive of Bill Gates, then you'll work with the drive of Bill Gates. Simple!