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Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#81

Post by fit2rule »

smcl wrote: post #69
seibelj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One theory is “petro dollars” - Saudi Arabia mandates all of their oil is purchased in dollars, thus ensuring global demand for dollars as every country needs oil. In return, the US has their back unconditionally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling#Petrod...

I’m sure it’s been asked and answered before but is there a realistic alternative to USD for such transactions? I imagine Euros would be the next-best bet, being the second-most traded currency. Edit: While I don’t agree with the person below who replied saying crypto could fill this gap, I don’t think they should be downvoted to the point where we can’t reply. I even hit the “vouch” button but it’s still not possibl…

This is what crypto rose to challenge.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#82

Post by throwaway210222 »

amelius wrote: post #62
74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that even something you need to learn? How difficult can it be for several men to kill a single journalist in a controlled and protected environment like a room in an embassy, then cut the body up and transport it away. That's not exactly rocket science. I think the relevance of this news is generally that Murica trains agents of oppressive states.

Yeah the difficult part would be to keep it a secret, including all the gory details. But they failed at that which makes me question their expertise.

> Yeah the difficult part would be to keep it a secret

Not really.

Even third-year chemistry students know that the only way to dispose of a body is to oxidise it carbon and water vapour in a plastic lined bathtub and a few litres of perchromic acid.

Science, people.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#83

Post by pjc50 »

reducesuffering wrote: post #32
cycomanic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if there is a conflict between economic and and "ethical" interests the economic interest always won (let's not even get into all the political reasons why totalitarian regimes were supported). The US (and much of the west by extension) certainly has a very spotty history of supporting democracy, especially if it was in their economic interest to support the totalitarian regime.

The US supporting democracy (or atleast classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, and more has by far been a net negative economic interest. We've paid dearly while Europe mostly enjoyed social welfare benefits.

> classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam

That's a strange way to talk about carpet bombing and chemical weapons. Besides, the US lost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon

"The Vietnamese government officially calls it the "Day of liberating the South for national reunification" (Vietnamese: Giải phóng miền Nam, thống nhất đất nước) or "Liberation Day" (Ngày Giải Phóng)"

.. I don't think the Vietnamese democratic government thanks you for it.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#84

Post by jillesvangurp »

pope_meat wrote: post #2

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

Oil is often singled out and important not because the US is dependent on Saudi oil but also because it depends on the Saudi's not dumping oil and undercutting the prices of US producers (and thus bankrupting them). But, I'd say it's more complicated than that and also is related to trillions of dollars in trade, military funding, contracting, etc across the region.

The Saudi's are a very loyal supporter of US policy for all of that and their country is very strategically located in the region and a big reason why the US has been able to exert power there for so long. E.g. Saudi support was crucial for both Gulf wars, the Sudan invasion, and more recently the conflicts in Syria, Afghanistan, Lebanon, etc.

Being able to park some aircraft carriers off the coast of Saudi Arabia is also helpful when it comes to controlling the Iranians of course. That's technically a long series of proxy wars but of course the US has been battling with them ever since the Iranian revolution all over the region in a long series of proxy wars that usually also involve the Saudis. Ugly but very profitable.

So, oil, money, and strategic value basically. You could pass some moral judgement on that but in the end most wars are about economic interests. And the interests of the US are worth trillions of dollars.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#85

Post by wil421 »

emptyfile wrote: post #49
bobsil1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t anymore, are more dependent on US weapons and parts than vice versa

Nah, rich Arabs always diversify their weapons suppliers. If the US doesn't want to earn tens of billions of dollars there's always France, Russia, etc.

No they can’t. If they buy certain Russian things the US will stop. Look at what happened when Turkey bought Russia’s air defense systems. They lost F-35s over it[1].

[1] https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2020/12/14/us-sanctions...

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#86

Post by juki »

smcl wrote: post #69
seibelj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One theory is “petro dollars” - Saudi Arabia mandates all of their oil is purchased in dollars, thus ensuring global demand for dollars as every country needs oil. In return, the US has their back unconditionally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling#Petrod...

I’m sure it’s been asked and answered before but is there a realistic alternative to USD for such transactions? I imagine Euros would be the next-best bet, being the second-most traded currency. Edit: While I don’t agree with the person below who replied saying crypto could fill this gap, I don’t think they should be downvoted to the point where we can’t reply. I even hit the “vouch” button but it’s still not possibl…

See the "Political events" section in that wikipedia page.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#87

Post by bluedino »

yaitsyaboi wrote: post #23
raincom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many drug cartels in Mexico get their training from the retired army personnel from Israel, USA. So, what can the USA/Israel do in such a case? Either ban any training given by retired folks; or give fat pensions to such people and make them sign agreements that prevent any private training whatsoever.

Why would the US or Israeli militaries be powerless to say "you can't use your training to help train up cartels and if we find out about it, that's your ass"?

Probably the same reason the US is powerless to say "cartels can't sell traffic drugs or humans into the US or it's their ass"

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#88

Post by hackeraccount »

Intermernet wrote: post #80
f6v wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America and our democratic allies spent half a century fighting totalitarianism Maybe they weren't fighting totalitarianism in the first place.

Maybe the real totalitarianism was the friends we met on the way...

underrated comment.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#89

Post by akudha »

knownjorbist wrote: post #22
drewcoo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spent half a century fighting totalitarianism By destabilizing and ousting democratically elected leaders around the world and replacing them with our puppets? Or do you mean fighting those puppets when they became inconvenient? I suspect what happened is not the history you think it is.

Your picture may be as narrow-minded as the person you're replying to, but in the other direction. The US also uses its economic clout to push for social, political and economic reforms in other countries as well.

Yes, the U.S govt does good things abroad. They also do lots of bad stuff. We can criticize them for the bad things they do and appreciate them for their good deeds, at the same time.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#90

Post by akudha »

baybal2 wrote: post #41
pope_meat wrote: post #2

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

> Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them? Because they spawn outfits who ram airplanes into skyscrapers. I see no logic in this, but some "expert geopolitical strategists" do. Same with Israel, sinks USS Liberty, and then people on the hill go orgasmic, because "higher meaning" — whatever that means. A simpler explanation which seems…

Follow the money is generally a good place to start, when something doesn’t make sense.
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