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Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

abc.net.au

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Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#81

Post by fragileone »

dt3ft wrote: post #47
iJohnDoe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not funny. Pretty much worse fucking case scenario. Imagine Signal, Telegram, or any other app that touts themselves as a secure app is really just the creation of the FBI, NSA, CIA, and NRO. Remember, yesterday’s conspiracy theory is today’s reality.

Food for thought: Telegram estimated costs for 2021 based on 675 million monthly active users (MAU) are $220 Million. Yet, the app is somehow free to use. Where does the money to cover the costs come from?

Telegram isn't end-to-end encypted except for some 1:1 chats. The unencrypted chat data is likely being sold, as their privacy policy allows.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#83

Post by FatalLogic »

femto wrote: post #43

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation is covering it in more detail than the Reuters article, including some of the mechanics of how it was pulled off: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-08/fbi-afp-underworld-cr... Apparently it revolved around duping Hakan Ayik, one of Australia's most wanted drug dealers now operating as an international kingpin from Turkey, to trust the app and recommend it to his associates. I…

>the AFP is now telling Ayik to hand himself in to avoid recriminations from his associates

The Australian Federal Police premise that he would be safer from reprisals in prison is an extremely shaky one [1]

Although if they can cut him off from all funds, it might become true.

[1] edit: https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tandi103.... - "homicide rate ... is up to 7 times higher [than outside]"

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#84

Post by vbezhenar »

mardifoufs wrote: post #75
girvo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth: some do. Signal (and Wickr) are used extensively.

Yep, and for some reason wickr is Imo even more popular than signal in those circles. It's curious since I've basically never heard of wickr here or in any cybersec community & signal seems to be the daily messaging app for tons of people. I guess it's something to do with the phone verification required by Signal... and I'd guess both apps are pretty similar when it comes to security?

I've heard that in Russia and Kazakhstan drug dealers use Telegram. It just might be a local fashion, when few people started using it and spread it around. I don't think that it's difficult to find phone number tied to unrelated person. Just ask some homeless guy to buy one.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#85

Post by MakersF »

spoonjim wrote: post #72
liquidify wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Representing criminals is not unethical or 'immoral'. Period. Protecting criminals legally is not unethical unless you are knowingly doing something illegal yourself. I imagine that most layers are just doing their job and getting paid for it. Bringing morality into that equation makes no sense in a legal system that has little to nothing to do with morality.

You don’t get to declare what is unethical by adding the sentence “Period.” after your claim. Ethics is a matter of opinion; I believe that knowingly aiding violent criminals is wrong; if you feel otherwise, that’s just like, your, opinion, man.

They aren't criminal until the court system declares them criminal. The lawyer is defending them before they are declared criminals. That is what "presumption of innocence" means. Everyone has the right to be represented in court, even people that later on will be convicted. Otherwise we can just go back to use pitchforks and similar (and actually it's happening on social media, and it's not looking good)

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#86

Post by XorNot »

na85 wrote: post #44
michaelmrose wrote: post #9

Does anyone find it funny that each criminal group could have been better off relying on a "kid who knows computers" level of expertise and bog standard devices running open source software which at least wouldn't be trivially systematically turned against them all at once quite so easily.

"Kids who know computers" are still vulnerable to evil maid attacks and badUSB and stuff. The kid's gotta sleep and eat and do whatever else kids do when they're employed by cartels. There's a reason that classified processing and data storage employs layered physical security too. There's that old saying about what happens when you give someone physical access to the machine.

Still, the damage is purely local and limited and much more likely to be detected. Human intelligence operations are among the most risky and expensive.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#87

Post by WalterBright »

spoonjim wrote: post #72
liquidify wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Representing criminals is not unethical or 'immoral'. Period. Protecting criminals legally is not unethical unless you are knowingly doing something illegal yourself. I imagine that most layers are just doing their job and getting paid for it. Bringing morality into that equation makes no sense in a legal system that has little to nothing to do with morality.

You don’t get to declare what is unethical by adding the sentence “Period.” after your claim. Ethics is a matter of opinion; I believe that knowingly aiding violent criminals is wrong; if you feel otherwise, that’s just like, your, opinion, man.

Everyone is entitled (in the US) to due process and a lawyer to defend them. There is nothing unethical or immoral about it. It's a fundamental right.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#88

Post by XorNot »

iJohnDoe wrote: post #26
senectus1 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from what I understand they developed the app themselves... marketed and pushed the app to certain "dark markets" and let them use the apps and devices as if they were secure. they were in fact real time monitoring every transaction. amazing really. and pretty funny if you asked me :-P

Not funny. Pretty much worse fucking case scenario. Imagine Signal, Telegram, or any other app that touts themselves as a secure app is really just the creation of the FBI, NSA, CIA, and NRO. Remember, yesterday’s conspiracy theory is today’s reality.

And that is why open source is important (and Signal's server and open source integration should be viewed very skeptically).

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#89

Post by spoonjim »

WalterBright wrote: post #87
spoonjim wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t get to declare what is unethical by adding the sentence “Period.” after your claim. Ethics is a matter of opinion; I believe that knowingly aiding violent criminals is wrong; if you feel otherwise, that’s just like, your, opinion, man.

Everyone is entitled (in the US) to due process and a lawyer to defend them. There is nothing unethical or immoral about it. It's a fundamental right .

Again, ethics are a matter of opinion, laws are a matter of fact. Yes, in the US you have the legal right to an attorney. Whether that attorney is behaving ethically depends on the attorney’s behavior and the person making the judgment on the ethics. You and I don’t have to have the same opinion on what’s ethical. We can each advocate for our own ideas of ethics to be codified into policy.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#90

Post by cromka »

marlor wrote: post #74
cromka wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Vice says that an external source came to offer the app, while the Australian Police "said the plan to use an encrypted app was hatched overseas over a few beers with FBI agents in 2018, before police figured out how to decrypt all messages." I wonder how this all ties together. As someone mentioned here, there surely be some movie about it.

It’s likely the FBI mentioned they had an app they could leverage, Australia noted that there was a gap in the local market after Phantom had been taken down, and the two agencies decided to seed the app into the Australian criminal underworld to see how far it would spread.

Yep, sounds plausible.
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