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Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

farms.com

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Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#81

Post by petewailes »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #78
vbezhenar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus produces simple and cheap tractors since forever, they are popular in Russia and other CIS countries. Just import them.

I dont think "just import them" covers the difficulties a lone farmer would have in transport, customs, language barrier and maintenance of a fairly random piece of equipment across an ocean that is also critical for their primary source of income. And imagine you have a warranty dispute or similar

Belarus are already imported into the US, as I recall.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#82

Post by cowl »

petewailes wrote: post #41
vbezhenar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus produces simple and cheap tractors since forever, they are popular in Russia and other CIS countries. Just import them.

An old Belarus 420A is a simple tractor. Even a modern 742 or 1220 isn't that complex. But it's simply not as capable as a Fastrac 4 or 8 series, or a Valtra N or C series, or a Deere 6, 7 or 8 series for example. They're just not in the same league in terms of what they can do with tool management, fitness for specific tasks or tool interop. As a single example, there's nothing that Belarus make that I'd want to use…

But isn't this self-defeating reasoning? on one side you say things need to be simpler to repair, on the other you say simple technology doesn't cover your needs. A lot of these advanced features are so complex and so intertwined to each other that you really want only a qualified person to be able to "try to fix it"

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#83

Post by bserge »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #57
the_biot wrote: post #39

There is a lot of misinformation about this. At face value, articles like this imply you're not able or allowed to fix mechanical issues, how dare they! What they don't mention is that manufacturers protect their electronic gear i.e. the consoles inside the machine that use GPS to run a field, adjust the attachment acccording to various sensors etc. This is very sophisticated stuff, and farmers need and want this fun…

One concern I also never see discussed is that for any type of electro-mechanical system, allowing the customer to change anything or maintain anything is a actually a big liability issue. Let's be clear, it is pretty obvious that the whole tractor-as-a-service paradigm is extremely profitable. However allowing access to diagnostics/config/firmware for anything that controls heavy machinery can be a huge liability. Y…

Is there a legal reason why they can't sign a waiver? You are always a misstep away from injury or death working on any heavy equipment. That has always been the case.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#85

Post by squiggleblaz »

the_biot wrote: post #39

There is a lot of misinformation about this. At face value, articles like this imply you're not able or allowed to fix mechanical issues, how dare they! What they don't mention is that manufacturers protect their electronic gear i.e. the consoles inside the machine that use GPS to run a field, adjust the attachment acccording to various sensors etc. This is very sophisticated stuff, and farmers need and want this fun…

I love the way every article about businesses making decisions that favor business concerns over customer concerns always have this balanced comment that says "What they don't mention is that the business has optimised for their own interests and ranked other concerns as a hindrance".

Yes, we know decisions aren't free. But it's not a coincidence that businesses are all simultaneously optimising in their own self interest and ignore the concrens of their customers.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#86

Post by lotsofpulp »

liaukovv wrote: post #54
willtim wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside to this, is that there is perhaps no longer an incentive to sell hardware with a limited lifespan.

Thats the point though isn't it, they dont sell it anymore. So any gains in lifespan are reaped by the company, not consumer

As long as there are competing suppliers (not colluding), they would compete to sell at lowest price.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#87

Post by pvaldes »

_wldu wrote: post #50

Old tractors are bringing top dollar at auctions (and have been for some time now). IMO, the same thing will happen with old cars/trucks some day. Now, they are mostly hobby cars for collectors and auto enthusiasts, but some day will be widely sought after due to more people wanting/needing to repair them. Late 80s and early 90s Toyotas will be sold at a premium as will any/all old Ford F-150 trucks.

They are not transferable to a new owner after 40 years here by law. If is older the tractor can't be sold, and if sold privately couldn't pass the vehicle inspection test later (that must be passed each six months, if I'm not wrong).

Things can be different in your country.

The main promoters of this idea are the independent diagnostic car machines makers. For the brand is a lot of risk and possible bad publicity.

For the farmer the results can vary. Messing with its electronics could turn the tractor into a pile of garbage. Allowing the owner to mess with safety systems will typically lead to somebody realizing that can delay the repair for some months just inactivating the warning lights. People do the same all the time with car airbags. As farmers typically earn money after the harvest, they could be working for many months with a fake sense of safety. And as people love to brag, this could became quickly a popular option and a big mess

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#88

Post by hackbinary »

Farmers do not want to pay for anything. My dealings with people in the farming community is that completely devalue everything around as a négociation tactic. They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. In general, I don't work for or with them anymore because of the horrible way I have been treated by them. (bit generalised, but I spend 10 years working in the community)

JD is moving to a Tractor as a Service model. JD does not want to open up their systems because before not long, you just hire a robotic service to come and plow or harvest your fields. JD sees this coming and wants to be in the best possible position to market its services to land owners.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#89

Post by salamandersauce »

maxerickson wrote: post #77
beckman466 wrote: post #2

> A few decades ago, any given farmer often had the skills and tools needed to quickly make repairs if their machinery broke down. These days, however, it’s not so straightforward. Most modern farm equipment is technologically advanced, containing computers and sensors that collect and transmit data. As a result, specific software tools are typically necessary to address mechanical failures and other issues. > Howeve…

The DRM in these tractors doesn't really depend on any IP laws. There's probably some restriction on reverse engineering it, but for a relatively low volume market with difficult to manufacture hardware parts, there's not going to be all that much interest in overcoming DRM even if there weren't laws.

DMCA. Breaking even the shittiest DRM is illegal. This of course kills incentives to break DRM from the commercial side as nobody can make any money off it without getting sued. Otherwise I imagine some 3rd party part manufacturer would attempt it.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#90

Post by lotsofpulp »

bserge wrote: post #83
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One concern I also never see discussed is that for any type of electro-mechanical system, allowing the customer to change anything or maintain anything is a actually a big liability issue. Let's be clear, it is pretty obvious that the whole tractor-as-a-service paradigm is extremely profitable. However allowing access to diagnostics/config/firmware for anything that controls heavy machinery can be a huge liability. Y…

Is there a legal reason why they can't sign a waiver? You are always a misstep away from injury or death working on any heavy equipment. That has always been the case.

I would not trust the legal power of a waiver between two non governmental entities. When the public opinion wants someone to pay, the government will go after whoever can pay.

I would want a clear law that prevents the company from being liable.

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