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The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

lawfareblog.com

81–90 of 183 posts

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#81
post #71
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we ban shipping? Shipping is pretty useful, though. What are the other major uses for Bitcoin?

In the long run? Maybe destroying the petro dollar. One can dream.

This doesn't make sense to me. Are you opposed to people paying for oil, or the influence of oil? Because that still exists whether they are paying with dollars or crypto, and will exist no matter what currency is used.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#82

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

I don't think you'll ever be able to fully ban cryptocurrency. Also, I'm not even sure ransomware is a net bad thing in the first place. It encourages better security and makes companies less likely to store my private information.

If the G7 banned crypto trading, even if ransomware hackers wanted to be paid in crypto, companies would be unable to do so without breaking the law, which would be untenable. The bottom would fall out. Yes, people in other countries could do it, but without major economies pumping in value, they're more of a curiosity. Which, maybe would be better.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#83
post #53

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

Heh, what? Ransomware existed long before cryptocurrencies. Money laundering via ACH, SWIFT, stolen credit cards, gift cards, and all sorts of online payment systems like PayPal are still huge, no cryptocurrencies required. Cryptocurrencies are used today because they're the most efficient way to make online payments, which is a net positive for everyone. It's just as easy to hunt down criminals using cryptocurrencie…

I deeply disagree that crypto is the easiest way to make online payments. Have you ever used Venmo? Or even Facebook pay? Or Zelle? Sure, it might be the easiest way to send money cross-border, but that's an edge case, the vast, vast majority of transactions are same-country.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#84
post #77
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, pray tell, are those benefits that are so obvious to you, and why should they only apply to photos of your lunch and not money? Most of the more "banal" uses of the Internet would still work fine with a tightly regulated system that required you to sign up for services with an ID and have every packet signed and tracked. The reality is that many in the US believe we had an insurrection attempt in January due to…

The whole article is about why money is a distinctively important regulatory target.

I just re-read the article to see if I was blind, but no where does it answer the question "what are the benefits of semi-anonymous photo sharing that don't apply to money transfer", in no small part as the article doesn't try to talk about the benefits of anything, much less an open Internet. I feel like you might not have actually read my comment to see the question I led with (asked in response to the comment above)? ;P

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#85
post #22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a cryptocurrency advocate but as arberx points out in another comment this is avoiding the real problem. The problem isn't cryptocurrency or ransomware. The root cause is what needs to be fixed: Software publishers and software owners are to blame for insecure systems. Software development is like the wild west with absolutely no accountability. This need to change.

There is no evidence at all that computer science and information technology actually knows how to solve the underlying security problems without forcing untenable compromises on the economy. We can produce secure software, but only at a level of expense and time that would preclude most commercial software development.

Then perhaps we shouldn't produce software.

If the costs to mitigate the negative externalities of a certain product or service outweigh the net benefits of said product or service, the creation of that product or service is a net negative on society, and we should cease that activity.

It's like arguing that a coal-fired power plant isn't profitable if it has to pay for all the carbon that it's producing.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#86
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make it illegal to transact crypto. That would devastate the price and ruin it as a currency. The network would still exist, but it'd be useless as a medium for criminal payments due to the low value.

That is exactly as dumb as trying to make the internet illegal. It would financially ruin any country who tried it and give a significant advantage to everyone else on the planet.

What evidence is available that crypto is so essential to the national economy that it would cause financial ruin?

Just last month, China banned the use of crypto by any financial institution. Are you suggesting this will ruin their economy?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#87

Ransomware is a gift — people are exposing insecure systems only for a few million dollars of payout. A more nefarious actor would do more nefarious things than just collect what is at the nation-state scale a very small amount of money. More ransomware will accelerate security improvements and protect systems from CCP, Five Eyes, etc.

This argument is pretty weird: ransomware is bad, but there's a potentially worse actor out there, so ransomware is good? I'd say that's like someone robbing a bank, but saying "someone else could have robbed you for more".

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make it illegal to transact crypto. That would devastate the price and ruin it as a currency. The network would still exist, but it'd be useless as a medium for criminal payments due to the low value.

Low value won't change its criminal utility. A criminal looking for a $50k ransomware payment doesn't care if the market cap is $50M or $50B. Outlawing it will make a difference though since it'll make it less likely that victims will pay, meaning the endeavor has a lower success rate.

This misses a big point though. If Corporation A needs to pay $1M in crypto to Hacker B, Corporation A needs to acquire $1M in crypto (whether that's 20 BTC or 20,000). If it's illegal for them to acquire the crypto they can't make the payment. The bottom falls out.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#89
post #80
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly as dumb as trying to make the internet illegal. It would financially ruin any country who tried it and give a significant advantage to everyone else on the planet.

....That is an extraordinary claim, and thus requires extraordinary evidence. There is no significant legitimate commerce taking place using cryptocurrency. By what mechanism would banning converting BTC to USD "financially ruin" the US?

It would certainly be bad for ransomware companies, who probably make up a substantial portion of GDP in some dark corner of the world. Think of their children!

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#90
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, what? Ransomware existed long before cryptocurrencies. Money laundering via ACH, SWIFT, stolen credit cards, gift cards, and all sorts of online payment systems like PayPal are still huge, no cryptocurrencies required. Cryptocurrencies are used today because they're the most efficient way to make online payments, which is a net positive for everyone. It's just as easy to hunt down criminals using cryptocurrencie…

This is enlightening. The 1989 ransomware that had a PO Box in Panama is hilarious. Really? Panama? Good point, thanks. However, opaque ledgers may make it difficult to hunt them down (Zcash, monero) in the future.

Maybe companies will start enabling MFA by then?

Kind of frustrating how easy it still is to break into critical infrastructure. I do that sort of thing regularly as my day job. Companies who put a slight effort into security don't get ransomwared.

The idea that law enforcement needs full visibility into everyone's financial history, and that's the only way for them to stop crime, is ridiculous.

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