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Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#81
post #60

The article reads a little alarmist honestly. They have created a low bandwidth mesh network for mostly IOT devices. I don’t get how this is suddenly compared with sharing internet. The later of which, Comcast actually did and does.

Here in the UK, BT does the same thing and nobody seems to complain. If you're a BT customer you can use your own data through somebody else's router. Maybe actually giving something in return is the answer for Amazon?

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#82
post #7

What will happen is some high profile company that has a few Amazon devices on their network will have these devices exploited to gain network access and get hit with some ransomware/data theft/etc... and then there will be a big legal battle between Amazon and the hacked company and this whole idea will be shut down and consumers will get a $10 class action settlement for each device.

this is not different for any other internet connected device on your network. although i doubt its about connectivity to the internet but about connectivity to some backend over the internet. I think it is quite common to assume these risks to be your own problem as is mitigating them. I mean i would probably like it if there is some responsibility for manufactures to make sure it does not happen but i doubt we are even close to something like that.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#83
> Users can disable Sidewalk in the settings section of the Alexa or Ring apps, but have until 8 June to do so. After that, if they have taken no action, the network will be turned on and their devices will become “Sidewalk Bridges”.

But the setting will still be available, right?

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#84

94.9% pure, organic, outrage, clickbait FUD. This feels like an "you're either with us or you're against us, Amazon B A D"-article. The central thesis is misleading and wrong because it's NOT "unlimited, direct sharing of your WiFi to whatever Amazon users happen to fall and scrape their knees outside your home because they can't skateboard," it's "likely low-rate connectivity for other Amazon users' devices over Blu…

> Where's the problem (other than opt-in vs. opt-out)?

What's the problem, other than the major problem?

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#85
post #60

The article reads a little alarmist honestly. They have created a low bandwidth mesh network for mostly IOT devices. I don’t get how this is suddenly compared with sharing internet. The later of which, Comcast actually did and does.

Far be it from me to defend Comcast, but it's not equivalent in the slightest. Comcast creates a separate network, with a separate IP, using their cable modem and the DOCSIS bandwidth available on their network. Its third-party usage does not count against your data cap, and any nefarious usage would not be associated with your own account and possibly subject you to civil or criminal sanctions.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not? Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This has been on the rise since 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc... . In my opinion, this legal change is a huge sleeper story that is behind a number of changes in how customers are getting treated. Since customers can no longer economically avail themselves of the courts to protect themselves en-…

Is that really enforceable? Maybe. I suspect that customers are better off not going through class claims anyway, as few of them actually yield amounts close to the harm done, and lawyers walk away with absurd amounts. "Collective" is merely a tool for not clogging courtrooms; there really isn't any other benefit to consumers here.

Civil and criminal court systems are very overwhelming and just broken in general in my opinion.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#87
So the opt-out period is only only one week, and I presumably won't be able to opt out later?

I don't own any of these devices, but if I want to have the option to buy one later but not have it be a sidewalk bridge, I guess I have to download the Alexa app and... oh in order to opt out, I have to log in to the Alexa app with my Amazon account, and in order to log in, I have to agree to:

  - Alexa Terms of Use
  - Amazon Conditions of Use
  - Amazon Privacy Notice
  - Children's Privacy Disclosure
  - Amazon Prime Terms
  - Amazon Music Terms of Use
  - Kindle Store Terms of Use
  - Audible Service Conditions of Use
  - Amazon Dash Replenishment Terms of Use
  - Amazon Kids+ Terms & Conditions (F/K/A FreeTime Unlimited)
  - Amazon PHotos Terms of Use

  - Amazon Device Terms of Use

  - IMDb Legal Information
  - Amazon Video Terms of Use
(all are links to legelese documents)

... I'll just commit today to never buying any of those sidewalk devices in the future.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not? Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This has been on the rise since 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc... . In my opinion, this legal change is a huge sleeper story that is behind a number of changes in how customers are getting treated. Since customers can no longer economically avail themselves of the courts to protect themselves en-…

Another story on the front page right now[0] from the WSJ[1] seems to imply that arbitration clauses fall apart when faced with a mountain of arbitration demands (75k+). Amazon is now seeking to remove its own arbitration clause for customers so that these can be consolidated into a class action lawsuit. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27356550 [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-faced-75-000-arbitration…

Something like that happened to Doordash a little over a year ago [1] [2]. Workers wanted to start a class action, Doordash used their arbitration clause to stop that. Over 5000 workers then asked for arbitration, which would have cost Doordash around $10 million in arbitration fees.

Doordash then tried to get a judge to make it a class action. The judge felt that this Doordash was in this mess due to their own hypocrisy and declined their request.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135474/doordash-workers...

[2] https://www.courthousenews.com/doordash-ordered-to-pay-12m-t...

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#89
post #78

Article doesn't mention it, but this is how you opt-out (there are others but this one has screenshots). https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/what-is-amazon-sidewalk Added to my list for the next time I'm on the phone with my parents, for our (weekly at this point) how-to sessions on "stopping the industry I work in from spying on you". I really, really wish product managers would understand the kind of ecosystem they…

It's the same thing Apple is doing. They want every device to be a part of a low-power BLE network for Apple AirTags or Amazon Echo Tiles or whatever they are. They want a huge network so that these small low power devices can use everyones devices to connect to the internet. For what it's worth, the only way to Opt-Out from Apple's broad network like this is to disable all "Find My" network tracking, so you'll never…

To be honest, I find these ad hoc mobile mesh networks fascinating.

With cheap flash, we could do a lot of high-latency high-bandwidth data transport with just existing movements.

We could eliminate telecoms overnight but we just don’t have the organization to do it. Like, every house used to have a VHF/UHF receiving tower on it.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#90

94.9% pure, organic, outrage, clickbait FUD. This feels like an "you're either with us or you're against us, Amazon B A D"-article. The central thesis is misleading and wrong because it's NOT "unlimited, direct sharing of your WiFi to whatever Amazon users happen to fall and scrape their knees outside your home because they can't skateboard," it's "likely low-rate connectivity for other Amazon users' devices over Blu…

So you're planning on just letting this happen on your devices; I get it, too much hassle, etc. No need to try and get others to not opt out if they choose to though, that sounds like a lot of effort for someone who's okay with it. Or are you paid by Amazon to promote it?
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