Live data from Hacker News

The media's lab leak fiasco

slowboring.com

81–90 of 736 posts

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, like me, many dismissed the lab-leak theory because it sounded like yet-another attempt to push the blame for all the unnecessary death from Trump to China, as well as the cavalcade of doctors stating that the DNA of the virus was clearly not artificially constructed.

So you’re saying you formed an important opinion on a impactful topic without reviewing the evidence? Maybe you should change that

GP was adding to the discussion by stating his/her thought process at the time. Not advocating that approach for the future.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#82

"If the question is “are both hypotheses possible?” the answer is yes. Both are possible. If the question is “are they equally likely?” the answer is absolutely not. One hypothesis requires a colossal cover-up and the silent, unswerving, leak-proof compliance of a vast network of scientists, civilians, and government officials for over a year. The other requires only for biology to behave as it always has, for a fami…

Why does it require a cover-up so vast? All you need to keep the secret is blocking access from international investigators and the silence of the very few people originally involved. There's tons of precedent of harsh and inhumane penalties for saying things the government doesn't want you to from within China. And international investigation is quite simple to decline, you just say no. I don't think it's as complicated as you're trying to make it sound.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#83
Not just the media, folks, also the rest of our "sense making apparatus".

Wikipedia has been suppressing lab leak discussion, and still to this moment will not allow the old Lab Leak Hypothesis page back. It still redirects to a declared "Misinformation!" page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=COVID-19_lab_leak...

And guess where else lab leak was suppressed? Here on HN. Yes, dang, you suppressed discussion of a perfectly reasonable hypothesis many times.

So, while I have your attention, the real problem vis a vis Covid19 is not the lab leak. The real problem is "gain of function" research, using gene splicing to make more virulent-to-humans pathogens. And don't read into anything I'm saying, please pay attention to literally what I say here; if you have to reword what I say to cast doubt, you're not playing fair.

This virus was likely man-made because gain of function man made viruses are quite common in research; and this is not a coverup conspiracy caused by the Chinese tendency for face-saving, swept under the carpet, "truths", though there is plenty of that. This scandal was caused by western experts: our best virologists are themselves engaging in gain of function research right here in our very own cities. If you ask them, as the media did, "what likely happened here", their answer is not going to point the finger at themselves, too much funding is at stake.

Good background and in-depth research on the gain of function and lab leak hypotheses was carried out and published on the web over a year ago by Yuri Deigin https://yurideigin.medium.com/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-throug... and it was covered on Bret Weinstein's Dark Horse podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5SRrsr-Iug

And surprisingly, it is easy for lay people to read/listen and follow because Yuri Deigan is not a virologist, just a really smart educated guy.

and it wasn't just the mainstream media and HN and wikipedia who suppressed the information from you all; sadly it was also because of the politicization, your politicization, of this crisis. If Trump said something, to most of you it just had to be wrong, and for some reason, opening our economy to the Chinese and disliking Russia were sacred cows to the Democrats, and anything Trump did that went the other way just had to be undone.

That is what covered up this most obvious and likely HYPOTHESIS from being discussed: that of a man made, gain of function virus escaping from a lab in Wuhan where the virus broke out.

Was there any Chinese military goal here, as a true conspiracy theory would allege? Sadly, frankly, there doesn't need to be. That's because advanced virology research is of deep interest to every military around the world. See the history of anthrax research. It is publicly acknowledged that it's part and parcel of germ warfare research both for defensive and offensive purposes.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#84

Call me cynical...but... What would any government do about it if it was proven to be a lab leak? They could declare it an accident (probably this would be true) and that would be the end of the story. No country would dare to impose sanctions or engage beyond diplomacy. I do not think that the Chinese governments reaction or handling of the case is suspect, they likely want to shut down potential fake news. To label…

How do you think it would play out if it is found that our government (e.g. NIH/CDC) supplied funding for research that created this virus?

I suspect many countries would take notice.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#85

To me what gives me credence to the "lab leak theory" more than anything, was China's behavior during and initially after the outbreak. Where they thwarted any investigations from WHO or anyone else and arrested journalists even attempting to cover it. Now we have additional information of lab workers being sick back in November...I genuinely wonder why people immediately jumped in to defend China's actions through t…

Interesting how media coverage completely changed. Under the previous administration it was considered racist to even mention the theory and it's proponents were considered racists or conspiracy theorists. Why such a sudden change? China certainly didn't change its position on the issue...

[deleted]

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#86
post #14

The US has intelligence that three Wuhan virologists were hospitalized. China says nobody was sick. It's quite simple, the US should release the names of those who were sick.

Seems like a fast way for China to black bag those people if they haven’t already

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#88

To me what gives me credence to the "lab leak theory" more than anything, was China's behavior during and initially after the outbreak. Where they thwarted any investigations from WHO or anyone else and arrested journalists even attempting to cover it. Now we have additional information of lab workers being sick back in November...I genuinely wonder why people immediately jumped in to defend China's actions through t…

Interesting how media coverage completely changed. Under the previous administration it was considered racist to even mention the theory and it's proponents were considered racists or conspiracy theorists. Why such a sudden change? China certainly didn't change its position on the issue...

People ask this as some sort of weird gotcha, but it’s actually not that interesting, nor should it be surprising. After all, the previous administration was filled with habitual liars at every level who kept pushing “alternative facts” over observable reality and shat on the media at every opportunity. As such, everything they claimed was viewed as a likely lie, and rightly so.

New developments have happened as well, though. I believe we recently started hearing about Wuhan lab employees starting to get sick around late 2019 and early 2020. I don’t think we had known that before.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#89

"If the question is “are both hypotheses possible?” the answer is yes. Both are possible. If the question is “are they equally likely?” the answer is absolutely not. One hypothesis requires a colossal cover-up and the silent, unswerving, leak-proof compliance of a vast network of scientists, civilians, and government officials for over a year. The other requires only for biology to behave as it always has, for a fami…

> vast network of scientists, civilians, and government officials

Few corrections:

* CCP government officials, who have every single incentive to participate in cover-up

* I am not sure how much cover-ups needed by any civillian, let alone vast network of civillians. An average civillian is probably not aware of lab leak to begin with, unless they were informed by media.

* again, not vast network of scientists is needed for cover-up. Mostly researchers and officials in Wuhan Lab. Like CCP officials, who have every single incentive to participate in cover-up

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#90
It's interesting looking at the timeline before Western media picked it up -- in the very early stages, chatter online referencing a leak, (or there was something released deliberately) seemed to be fear of it being a SARS 'biological weapon'. there was overlap with the newly emerging health crisis and the Hong Kong protests, which seems to have fueled that speculation. A good analysis of that time period was done by the Atlantic Council [0]

I have also been archiving different web findings pertaining to all forms of 'leak' speculation in the form of a timeline [1]

[0] https://atlanticcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Weapo...

[1] https://news.coffee/wuhan_lab_snippets

Post reply on HN