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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#81

Post by georgyo »

chmod775 wrote: post #76
rini17 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there cheap devices that measure USB cables? So that user plugs the cable into it (both ends) and it will list what protocols/bandwidth does it support. And electrical resistance of course.

I haven't had dealings with these new USB cables yet. Can anyone enlighten me what is happening here? In older USB cables you used to have four, five, or nine pins that were directly connected via copper wire to the pins on the other end. With the exception of charging-only cables that didn't connect the data pins. Is the issue just that the new cables tend to only connect a subset of the 24 USB-C pins?

USB-C cables can have all sorts of logic embedded in the cable, including inline resistors to signal capabilities.

However, when it comes to power delivery. For both old style USB and newer USB-C, the thickness of the copper matters for how much amps the wire can carry.

IE apple has a 30W charger that comes with a different thickness than their 61W charger. And using the 30W cable with the 61W charger.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201700#usbc

> For the best charging experience, you should use the USB-C charge cable that comes with your Mac notebook. If you use a higher wattage USB-C cable, your Mac will still charge normally. USB-C cables rated for 29W or 30W will work with any USB-C power adapter, but won't provide enough power when connected to a power adapter that is more than 61W, such as the 96W USB-C Power Adapter.

The best part is that the cables look nearly identical with some very small print on the cable that says they are different.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#82

Post by liminalsunset »

yboris wrote: post #62
mavhc wrote: post #52

Powering 90% of the things in your house via DC power should be the future, no more switching from DC solar/battery back to AC and then back to DC again for no reason.

Semi related question : has anyone come across a product that would let me replace an outlet or a light fixture with a flush (clean design) thing that provides enough power for an LED strip? I don't like having a large DC converter hanging off a switch hanging off an outlet. And I can't have a DC converter hang off a ceiling (nor do I want to wire it directly and hide inside the ceiling either).

Amazon sells Leviton (a good/common brand) electrical outlets that support USB C power delivery for ~40USD.

You can install one, and connect a USB C PD to DC cable ~20USD to power your LEDs.

Your LEDs have to be 30W or less though.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#83

Post by yurishimo »

yboris wrote: post #62
mavhc wrote: post #52

Powering 90% of the things in your house via DC power should be the future, no more switching from DC solar/battery back to AC and then back to DC again for no reason.

Semi related question : has anyone come across a product that would let me replace an outlet or a light fixture with a flush (clean design) thing that provides enough power for an LED strip? I don't like having a large DC converter hanging off a switch hanging off an outlet. And I can't have a DC converter hang off a ceiling (nor do I want to wire it directly and hide inside the ceiling either).

You need the AC->DC converter somewhere. It either needs to be in the light or outside.

There are LED fixtures that include the converter; you decide on what that you like the aesthetic of.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#84

Post by shepherdjerred »

croon wrote: post #9
jeffrallen wrote: post #7

Plus, if you thread the cable through your hot dog, it will be warm in time for lunch. Meanwhile, Apple's M1 chip is showing us that 240 watt laptops are the problem, not the solution...

Having one USB-C dock powering your laptop (maybe with a hungry GPU), as well as a couple of monitors with everything through just usb-c cables is my hope, and this is one step closer.

It's already possible. I have a 2019 Intel MacBook with AMD graphics. It connects to a CalDigit T3 Plus dock via one USB C thunderbolt cable. The dock connects to two 1440p 144hz monitors, a keyboard, speakers, webcam, USB microphone, and Ethernet. The dock powers the laptop over the thunderbolt cable.

I also have an Intel desktop computer with a thunderbolt port. I'm able to switch from my desktop to my laptop with just one cable.

It still has a few rough edges, but overall it works better than anything else I've tried.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#85

Post by [deleted] »

cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

[deleted]

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#86

Post by baybal2 »

Uh....

Melting USB-C connectors at 65W are already bad enough.

The problem is that there is no way to detect a bad contact, and they tend to be.

Few specs of dust, and you have 5 amps going to a single pin.

Even if you have split seconds momentary disconnects, you can get welds in contact pads, which will over time degrade the contact.

On other note, Intel may be increasing laptop CPU power budgets into 60W-70W territory to counter Ryzen people say. I think it makes sense now why they do it.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#88

Post by consp »

georgyo wrote: post #81
chmod775 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had dealings with these new USB cables yet. Can anyone enlighten me what is happening here? In older USB cables you used to have four, five, or nine pins that were directly connected via copper wire to the pins on the other end. With the exception of charging-only cables that didn't connect the data pins. Is the issue just that the new cables tend to only connect a subset of the 24 USB-C pins?

USB-C cables can have all sorts of logic embedded in the cable, including inline resistors to signal capabilities. However, when it comes to power delivery. For both old style USB and newer USB-C, the thickness of the copper matters for how much amps the wire can carry. IE apple has a 30W charger that comes with a different thickness than their 61W charger. And using the 30W cable with the 61W charger. https://suppor…

As a solution by anecdote:

My (by now) ancient laptop simply won't charge (or boot if cold) if the wattage of the psu is insufficient. This will easily solve that problem as you find out when the battery runs out of juice. I noticed this as it originally came with a 45 watt charger but after a processor upgrade the required power would be at least 60 watt.

Note that it will charge the battery when off with any charger, it is just slower.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#89

Post by [deleted] »

szhu wrote: post #64
dijit wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I share that worry, but isn’t the “-PD” part of “USB-PD” a negotiation step? I have very little worry that my carpet can accidentally negotiate 60w and up. I _am_ worried about cheap USB-PD devices that forgoe this negotiation as it is complex and expensive to implement.

Your carpet cannot negotiate a high power, but two devices might negotiate a high power while not being aware that that the cable has a cut in it and is in direct contact with the carpet.

[deleted]

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#90

Post by megous »

mavhc wrote: post #52

Powering 90% of the things in your house via DC power should be the future, no more switching from DC solar/battery back to AC and then back to DC again for no reason.

Maybe with high voltage DC, but 5V or even 12V DC distribution is a complete no-go/waste of metal.
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