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The Matrix Space Beta

matrix.org

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Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#81

Post by Arathorn »

StavrosK wrote: post #80
Arathorn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first cut will be using Jitsi as the engine, albeit with more appropriate UI, which gives you AEC (echo cancellation) from WebRTC and some level of AGC (normalisation). But we have plans to go far beyond that, and are very aware it’s hard work. However, pre-Matrix, the core team professionally built VoIP stacks, so we have some experience here (and our own WebRTC implementation should we need it :)

If you do AGC, you'll already be more usable than Discord, who apparently refuse to implement this. Whenever we're voice chatting in my group, it's extremely annoying that one person is quiet as a whisper and the other is AT 200% VOLUME AND CLIPPING.

The risk on AGC is that unless combined with good voice activation you can end up amplifying background noise and then deafening people when they start speaking. But yup, we'd definitely want to do this.

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#82

Post by atatatat »

ldarby wrote: post #78
Arathorn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there is a finite number of active contributors to Element, and we have to prioritise what to work on. While E2EE is not perfect (the UX needs another major iteration and we are still hunting rare edge cases where messages cannot be decrypted) in practice it's usable day to day. We consciously chose to prioritise building out Spaces over the last few months over E2EE UX as otherwise there's a risk of Discord becom…

Thanks for the response, that sounds good and makes sense, I guess I'll continue waiting... My family regularly does things like forget which browser they last used, or re-install windows, or otherwise mysteriously have all browser settings disappear, etc - all things that seem to be related to those key-backup issues.

Put it on their phone or tablet.

PCs are no longer the right device for "mom and dad".

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#83

Post by StavrosK »

Arathorn wrote: post #81
StavrosK wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do AGC, you'll already be more usable than Discord, who apparently refuse to implement this. Whenever we're voice chatting in my group, it's extremely annoying that one person is quiet as a whisper and the other is AT 200% VOLUME AND CLIPPING.

The risk on AGC is that unless combined with good voice activation you can end up amplifying background noise and then deafening people when they start speaking. But yup, we'd definitely want to do this.

Oh, sorry, you meant input normalization, of course. Please please please also add output normalization, so all people in a room sound at the same volume!

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#84

Post by HotHotLava »

Arathorn wrote: post #54
sneak wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm puzzled by this comment. Can you elaborate on what you mean by phoning home? On first launch, it connects to multiple centralized servers before you have a chance to select your homeserver. The issue was with the default client, in the default config. Not sure if it's still happening, but it was concerning enough that it happened in the first place. https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/13942 https://…

As per my comment at https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/11655#issuec... , we'll switch auto-update checks to require user confirmation.

Did you maybe post the wrong link?

The comment you're linking to says that there are no current plans to change the default request to matrix.org from the login page, and that you explicitly plan to keep the current auto-updating behavior.

(also, of course "we will fix that" implies that it is currently still broken, which is what the original commenter was pointing out)

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#85

Post by Arathorn »

HotHotLava wrote: post #84
Arathorn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As per my comment at https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/11655#issuec... , we'll switch auto-update checks to require user confirmation.

Did you maybe post the wrong link? The comment you're linking to says that there are no current plans to change the default request to matrix.org from the login page, and that you explicitly plan to keep the current auto-updating behavior. (also, of course "we will fix that" implies that it is currently still broken, which is what the original commenter was pointing out)

The comment i linked is me saying:

> we're going to fix this, and yes, imo, autoupdates need an opt-in.

i'm not sure how clearer i can be.

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#86

Post by Arathorn »

hparadiz wrote: post #79
Arathorn wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix's bot support should be excellent? It's arguably more robust than Discord's given it's an open API and there are tonnes of SDKs and bots building on it: https://github.com/turt2live/matrix-bot-sdk , https://matrix.org/docs/guides/usage-of-matrix-bot-sdk , https://github.com/bnjbvr/botzilla , etc. What do you mean by 'smart widgets based on url'?

Things like Spotify links turning into an embed widget. I've used the bots api for slack and discord in a corporate environment. Compared to that the matrix api is horribly behind and unreliable.

thanks; filed https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/17396 for widgets.

Not sure what problems you're seeing with the Matrix API; it's lightyears ahead of Slack & Discord in my experience, but I guess i may be getting high on my own supply...

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#87

Post by Arathorn »

anticensor wrote: post #68
Arathorn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Element we have a bunch of customers doing so, but the one I can speak to most accurately is Element itself, as a company. Our internal space view looks like this, for instance: https://matrix-client.matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/m... . As you can see, it's pretty enterprisey - we even have HR rooms ;P

You have forgot sanitising the screenshot before sharing with us.

Nope, I deliberately shared it unsanitised to try to demonstrate a real life enterprisey use case. There's nothing sensitive shown.

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#88

Post by Arathorn »

StavrosK wrote: post #83
Arathorn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk on AGC is that unless combined with good voice activation you can end up amplifying background noise and then deafening people when they start speaking. But yup, we'd definitely want to do this.

Oh, sorry, you meant input normalization, of course. Please please please also add output normalization, so all people in a room sound at the same volume!

I think it depends on which perspective your inputs/outputs are coming from ;) The way for all people in a room to sound at the same volume is to normalise the audio you capture from them. If you normalise the mixed signal you play back to the other users in the room, it's too late (at least if they speak over the top of each other), plus it'd be too hard as you'd be constantly yoyoing around.

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#89

Post by StavrosK »

Arathorn wrote: post #88
StavrosK wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, sorry, you meant input normalization, of course. Please please please also add output normalization, so all people in a room sound at the same volume!

I think it depends on which perspective your inputs/outputs are coming from ;) The way for all people in a room to sound at the same volume is to normalise the audio you capture from them. If you normalise the mixed signal you play back to the other users in the room, it's too late (at least if they speak over the top of each other), plus it'd be too hard as you'd be constantly yoyoing around.

Oh hmm, that's true, thanks for the clarification.

Re: The Matrix Space Beta

#90

Post by viccuad »

Arathorn wrote: post #75
viccuad wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enabling by default: - cross-signing (so users verify their own devices themselves, and you verify users only once by verifying their public key, regardless of how many times they add or update devices) - and key backup (so moving between devices doesn't need manual polling for other devices' keys the first time for decrypting messages) would be a great step forward. Those are there, but they are disabled by default…

cross-signing & key backup are enabled by default, and have been for a year or so? you have to explicitly opt out by repeatedly hitting the 'skip' button. however, the UX is certainly more complicated than it should be, and we're due to rework it in the coming months.

Woops. I may be dealing with friends & family that joined prior to that. I wonder if one could get prompted again for enabling cross-signing & backup once you open a new client (I don't think it happens right now). That would help migrating everyone to enabling it.
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