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Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

businessinsider.com

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Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#81

Post by huitzitziltzin »

paganel wrote: post #55
huitzitziltzin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what job do you want the FTC to do here? I assume you think there is an antitrust angle on this potential acquisition? I am an economist and that is my field. I disagree with your take, if that is what you mean. This is a vertical merger. Vertical mergers are quite different in their welfare effects to consumers than horizontal mergers. Vertical mergers can frequently be welfare-improving to consumers. Indeed, this i…

> If your prediction is that this will result in a welfare loss to consumers I would ask that you offer some evidence. For what it's worth a company that is valued at between 1.5 and 2 trillion usd has to come with evidence of how it isn't a monopoly/abusing its monopoly position, we can't reasonably talk about a "free market" when those numbers are involved. I'm not an economist and I'm not good with remembering nam…

> For what it's worth a company that is valued at between 1.5 and 2 trillion usd has to come with evidence of how it isn't a monopoly/abusing its monopoly position,

There is no good evidence I'm aware of which suggests that Amazon is a monopoly or anything like one in any market I'm aware of: certainly not in retail to consumers, nor in AWS (to pick a frequent target of criticism that I see on this site). If you have evidence which suggests Amazon is a monopolist in some market it competes in, please cite it.

Amazon is large because it is successful. It is successful because it generally offers products cheaply and delivers them quickly. Period.

That is exactly the case that you do not want antitrust law to punish. Antitrust should preserve competition while not punishing successful firms.

It is indeed true that one way to become valuable is to acquire a monopoly position in a market. That is not the only way. And it is not the way that Amazon has become such a valuable company.

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#82

Post by adventured »

ghaff wrote: post #58
GeekyBear wrote: post #28

Isn't it the case that a radio station doesn't need the permission of a composer to play their work on the radio, but instead pays a non-negotiable fee? Internet radio stations work similarly, but also distribute money to the performer(s) and label. The core idea of forced licensing to any streaming service willing to pay a set fee could do a lot to prevent consumers from needing to pay for so many streaming services…

Music has compulsory licensing which pretty much no other copyrighted material has. >The core idea of forced licensing to any streaming service willing to pay a set fee could do a lot to prevent consumers from needing to pay for so many streaming services. I'm skeptical. While there are exclusives, one of the reasons Netflix, for example, doesn't have more content is that it has to balance the size of its catalog wit…

Music has some compulsory licensing, it's limited in pretty significant ways though.

That's why Taylor Swift was able to force her music off of Spotify and they couldn't do anything about it (such as just ignore her and pay a default fee). Obviously if Spotify could have done so at the time they'd have just paid a default compulsory rate and kept her popular albums on their network.

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#84

Post by Kye »

slumdev wrote: post #48
oblak wrote: post #37

Here's hoping for a new Stargate TV show! Despite a couple of amazing BSG seasons, SG-1 is just better overall. I don't event want the old crew. Just give us something cool. The only good thing that came out of SG Universe was the opening episode. It was awesome.

Do you really want that? When a streaming service reboots a classic, you end up with: 1. The plot is pretty thin and always involves a twist. That the twist happens is predictable, and so the contents of the twist become more and more ridiculous to try to reclaim unpredictability. 2. Every episode is a cliff hanger in service of the twist from #1. 3. Unnecessary lewdness means you can't enjoy it with your kids. 4. It…

Who said anything about a reboot? A new series is fine. Universe got better with age and perspective. Atlantis was already solid when it was new. I wouldn't even mind a The Expanse/Stargate crossover where they turn out to be parallel universes. Stargate Universe already hinted at a new Big Bad that could be the one they're hinting at in The Expanse.

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#85

Post by jjcon »

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #67
jjcon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am an economist and that is my field. I disagree with your take Maybe economists need to get a new take cause this shit is obviously ridiculous EDIT: see the already pending antitrust litigation against Amazon in EU and US

I’m all ears if you have a good idea. “Obviously ridiculous” sounds like a great standard to block an acquisition. Explain what’s obviously ridiculous about it. I judge these things on the potential for harm to consumers. I don’t see that here. Perhaps you do. Do you see this leading to increased prices or a reduction in quantity consumed? (And of what, btw?) That’s how we make these judgments so if it’s obvious to y…

> Do you see this leading to increased prices or a reduction in quantity consumed?

We’re way past that at this point. Amazon is closer to a level of government than traditional company. They are already under multiple antitrust investigations in multiple countries and jurisdictions so it’s nuts for you to go all pikachu face on the comment that they may be guilty of such.

The amount of power Amazon has over media, retail and internet is unparalleled and is a threat to a well regulated democracy. Their second HQ is going in DC metro for a reason.

IMO Amazon should be split into a dozen companies. Would that be good for consumers on day 1? No. But it would create a better market over time just as when the megacorps of the past have been split up.

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#86

Post by dageshi »

treis wrote: post #60
dageshi wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distribution was physical back in the day, your choice of cinema was dictated by location. Locking specific movies to specific cinemas was a detriment to the public for that reason. Does that matter when the alternative is via distribution by internet? Honestly, you can sub to netflix for one month, watch everything you want and then unsub, same with all the other services. Has there ever been a point in history wher…

No, but we are solidly in the consolidate and undercut competition phase. The issues arise in the use monopoly power to extract large profit phase.

How? So long as there are multiple competitors after the same customers I don't really see how this happens. Hell, we only really have 3 major cloud computing platforms (along with some minor ones), but consistently the prices of everything they offer goes down.

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#87

Post by ghaff »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #80
ghaff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a lot of it's older but it's a huge high-quality film back catalog which Amazon doesn't really have today.

I found Amazon Prime movie section (good movies) better than Netflix. This buyout makes sence.

Personally, I find the all-you-can-eat subscription subs all pretty bad for film. They have even good films but if you want to watch a specific film, it's unlikely they have it. Earlier in the pandemic I even reupped my Netflix DVD rental service for a while. (Sadly, Netflix is obviously not repurchasing a lot of older movies as the discs become unwatchable.)

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#88

Post by vmception »

dalbasal wrote: post #66

There reality of current equity valuations is such that, if sustained, there is some some pretty savage consolidation to come. The only limit is antitrust, or fear of. $9bn is 0.5% of AMZN's current market cap, so $9bn represents a daily price fluctuation. They also have $45bn in cash reserves, so amazon could buy 5 MGMs without borrowing or issuing stock. That's not even a lot! Apple, Google & FB have $200bn, $140bn…

What’s the provocative part?

I like the insight. What you are saying is that liquidity needs to get much deeper to account for all the currency made available and consolidated.

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#89

Post by JohnWhigham »

fastball wrote: post #41
JohnWhigham wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Rockefellers and Vanderbilts of yester-century would be red with envy at the size and power of today's tech companies.

Yes, but at least in the case of Standard Oil, that was a monopoly which was definitively anti-consumer, because it was actually monopolizing an entire specific industry.

Right. But today when most people say "monopoly", they don't mean the Standard Oil kind. They mean the Google kind that has ~90% of the search market. That much market share is still pretty anti-consumer. With Standard Oil, there were no competitors. Today, you can start a Google competitor, but they will bully you every inch of the way, and probably end up buying you anyway. It's not as clear-cut as a Standard Oil/AT&T, but it's still highly predatory and monopolistic behavior.

Re: Amazon is reportedly negotiating to acquire MGM for about $9B

#90

Post by NoSorryCannot »

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #76
ncallaway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vertical integration of the distribution of media and the production of media is extremely problematic because of the way copyright operates in this country. I think you have to examine vertical integration in copyright affected industries differently than you would in, say, the vertical integration of steel production with a company that consumes steel. The interaction with copyright invariably creates issues fo…

Vertical integration in steel production could as easily involve intellectual property as it does here. As a hypothetical example, imagine if Apple had sourced the M1 chip from a third party which it now proposed to buy. There would be intellectual property at stake there too. This case is no different. And indeed, in the Apple hypothetical you could well expect consumers to be better off and for exactly the same rea…

The measure of "consumer welfare" used by US antitrust is mostly concerned with prices, which I've always thought was a bit cynical but it is what it is. Do consumers stand to pay higher prices when a single company controls the production, licensing, and distribution of content?

I would argue yes and the government has argued it, too, when they forced movie studios to divest their stakes in movie theaters.

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