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The Return of Fancy Tools

macwright.com

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Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#81

Post by porker »

breakfastduck wrote: post #28
design-material wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with Monday?

Honest truth - our developers don't like it. Very DIY. You can build great workflows if you put the effort in. Brilliant reporting, main reason we adopted. Clubhouse for example gives the agile structure (epics, stories etc) by default and you conform to it. Minimal setup effort. From a 'management' perspective I actually like monday, by the actual end users don't seem to like it. Getting a true hierarchy and relatio…

I've never found a solution that both developers and management like.

We tried dozens and I've put it down as an unsolved problem.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#82

Post by porker »

dleslie wrote: post #16
madeofpalk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sliding in here with the hot take, but Jira can actually be pretty good! Github is terrible at project management. The problem with Jira (or at least used to) is that it has so much complexities that let people make it overly complicated.

I happen to agree. I miss the data analysis tools Jira had at its disposal, and the ability to create home pages with all sorts of graphs, todo lists, and so forth. Since last using Jira I've never felt nearly as aware of the state of a project as when I did.

Yes, dashboards are underrated by those who haven't used them.

The data analysis tools did cause problems at one company I worked at. They had a very locked down JIRA install and management were in thrall to the burn-down chart. If you got behind you were hauled over the coals.

The burndown chart only considered the rate tickets were closed. So developers started creating extra tickets at the start of a project, so that when they got behind on a larger issue they could closed off some of the small tickets and the chart would stay on track.

Management never spotted.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#83

Post by watwut »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #51
greatgoat420 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never used Jira, could you say more about your feelings towards it? Currently we use an old in-house solution and are thinking of shifting.

The biggest issue by far is how slow it is. I don't mean bubble sort slow, I mean deliberately engineered quantum bogosort. A cache-less refresh for me on a blazing fast dev machine takes between 3-10 minutes on a normal day, though it might only take 1m if the internet gods are feeling particularly merciful. That leads to all sorts of avoidance because using it for anything takes long enough to be worth documenting…

I don't know how you have it configured, but I have to say, we dont have these problems.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#84

Post by porker »

breakfastduck wrote: post #19
burlesona wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched from Jira to Linear and am very happy with it. Just the right mix of power, completeness, and customization, without any fussy fiddling. It’s also blazing fast.

We're running Monday. Has to be used by approx 60-80 users mix of dev / old school projects & support. I'll check out Linear. Been looking at Clubhouse too.

Linear looks like a clone of ClickUp (which we settled on) and I'd recommend checking it out too.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#85

Post by terenceng2010 »

I probably won't pick CS as my undergrad study if I haven't used dreamweaver to create website for my classmate when I was just 12 years old (hand-type html, css is a bit much for me that time. And Dw allows your to set hyperlink, an on hover event easily, js is hard to grasp for me that time ) .

So I always think it's good to have a low barrier for people to get in.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#86

Post by jes »

meierjo wrote: post #61
jes wrote: post #52

Edit code like a grandpa in neovim... Love it! At 61 I am a grandpa, prefer GNU Emacs over vi, but still have fond memories of using vi on 4.2BSD systems. Long time ago!

Ahhh vi. I was reading the article hoping to see mention of vi… Emacs was cool too, but I never got hooked - was very comfortable in vi land as it was the first editor I used on the old time terminals (green/amber CRT and a keyboard you could kill with). Oh the power of vi/EMACs and regular expressions without ever lifting a finger from the keyboard!

Exactly. I well remember the green or amber 24x80 terminals. Televideo, Lear-Siegler, etc. Bundles of twisted pair cable for tty lines back to the machine room.

Good times....

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#87

Post by maydup-nem »

This view is forced and implicitly claims there are some actual trends going on with some handpicked examples, and even then they're quite false. Give me a break. I think this complex/simple notion is black-and-white kind of wrong at the root of it, just throw in "powerful" in there and see how well that view fairs then.

> “I’m not writing it down to remember it later, I’m writing it down to remember it now.” The friction of having to write, to structure thoughts in plain text, to remember the name of the person I need to reference on this page: that is the point.

How about writing to forget it? For me, the point, more often than not, is to not have to remember what I am writing down. And if need be, come back to it later.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#88

Post by 0xCMP »

ashneo76 wrote: post #68
0xCMP wrote: post #58

It's basically cause of mobile. Simple tools often involve using files. Using plain text files too. I don't think the pendulum will swing back the same. Files are a bad abstraction. Databases via HTTP APIs are far more reliable for using between all our devices. Syncing files without something like Git is very painful and for Git to be used the user themselves need to be able to handle the diff themselves correctly.…

Files are a great abstraction. They give you ownership, actual one, not the kind sold by apple or Netflix. Files give you freedom to share informatiin instead of being held in a database by some third party with different intentions than your freedoms. Please don't spread FUD

For storing bytes at a path on disk? Sure, but it's low level abstraction. Something which only developers and sys-admins should be concerned with.

Users would much rather work with logical items. A "photo" which includes metadata, photo files, photo edits, ratings, face/object detections, and etc. as a single "thing". A tweet thread. A blog post on Medium or in WordPress. A Google Doc or Sheet.

The question is how do you provide that seamless "anywhere, anytime" experience while keeping that data as local to the device as possible? Files by themselves just can't solve that. There needs to be a protocol, a data format, and mobile OS support.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#89

Post by AlotOfReading »

watwut wrote: post #83
AlotOfReading wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest issue by far is how slow it is. I don't mean bubble sort slow, I mean deliberately engineered quantum bogosort. A cache-less refresh for me on a blazing fast dev machine takes between 3-10 minutes on a normal day, though it might only take 1m if the internet gods are feeling particularly merciful. That leads to all sorts of avoidance because using it for anything takes long enough to be worth documenting…

I don't know how you have it configured, but I have to say, we dont have these problems.

The configurations can supposedly make a huge difference. However, I've yet to see a company where these weren't serious issues and I can only speak to my experience. If you're lucky enough to have a decent installation I'd recommend buying IT a nice lunch or something. A bad Jira setup is truly awful.

Re: The Return of Fancy Tools

#90

Post by fergie »

jes wrote: post #52

Edit code like a grandpa in neovim... Love it! At 61 I am a grandpa, prefer GNU Emacs over vi, but still have fond memories of using vi on 4.2BSD systems. Long time ago!

Me too.

I think that there are more of us than we think its just that there are no commercial interests promoting our way of working, so we feel slightly unusual when in fact we are just doing the logical thing.

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