Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

bloombergquint.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 125 posts

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#81

Post by bluGill »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #56

Who is asking for autonomous vehicles? Biased sample sure, but I've never heard anyone actually express a desire for it.

Me. I've lost enough good friends because of bad drivers. It doesn't take much honest analysis to realize that humans can never be good drivers, so I want to take their car away from all.

However in today's world there isn't a good option. Even if we would put in arbitrary subways, there are still jobs [like plumbers[ that cannot reasonably use transit. Thus self driving cars must be a part of my better future.

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#83

Post by joshuamorton »

dntrkv wrote: post #74
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could've vastly expanded a lot of train systems with the amount of money that's been burned trying to make cars drive themselves. Unfortunately, most new transportation methods that are not trains are just attempts to build trains, while claiming they are not trains and will cost less than trains. But inevitably end up costing as much as trains. Trains.

> We could've vastly expanded a lot of train systems with the amount of money that's been burned trying to make cars drive themselves. I'd like to see the numbers on that. Given the cost for the CHSR is around $100B, I don't think that statement is true. The bigger issue here is the US's inability to build fast trains, affordably, and on a reasonable timeline.

Counting only published investment in companies like Cruise, Zoox, Argo, Nuro, Aurora, etc. gives investment of around 20B . But its likely that the money invested "privately" in Tesla's AV division, Uber ATC, lyft's AV division, Waymo, and Cruise post acquisition is much higher.

I think a very conservative guess is that there's been $40B invested in this space. That would, for example, cover the south bay BART expansion 4-5 times over.

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#84

Post by ObserverNeutral »

rsj_hn wrote: post #80
dreamcompiler wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the best car you can buy, electric or otherwise. That's why it baffles me that Musk feels the need to consistently lie about autonomy, because the car is already great without it, and the "intelligent cruise control" which the car does have is convenient and as good as anybody else's. It's as if Apple made the best computers--which some people think they still do--but Tim Cook was tweeting every day abou…

I don't think Musk is intentionally lying about autonomy, this is just his worldview. He truly believes that strong AI is just around the corner and it poses an existential threat to the human race, and by the same token, of course we'll have full self-driving cars as soon as just a few small kinks are ironed out. These beliefs stem from a very strong worldview, and are not attempts at stock price manipulation or som…

> and are not attempts at stock price manipulation or some kind of investor scam

Why isn't he working on stuff in a full open source manner like Linus of Linux did back in the day?

Also , let's assume you are in it to solve the problem and believe that the for-profit model is the better than opensource ...then why not live modestly like Warren Buffett?

Guy knows what he's doing. He wants to be famous and rich and surronded by yes-men and yes-girls.

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#85

Post by mysterydip »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #60
S_A_P wrote: post #8

This is my single biggest beef with Elon and Tesla. From the jump I think that the name overstates the ability of the vehicles. I think his tweets have been consistently optimistic regarding timelines to the point of hyperbole. I agree that autonomy is a worthwhile goal, but I think the real selling point of a Tesla is that they were until recently the best electric car you can buy. That still may be the case today b…

I think it's the best car you can buy, electric or otherwise. That's why it baffles me that Musk feels the need to consistently lie about autonomy, because the car is already great without it, and the "intelligent cruise control" which the car does have is convenient and as good as anybody else's. It's as if Apple made the best computers--which some people think they still do--but Tim Cook was tweeting every day abou…

Different needs for different people, I don't think there is a singularly best car out there. I'd personally like to see an electric minivan, as it's the most practical for my family of five, with all our luggage and three children in carseats.

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#86

Post by throwawayAI39 »

If you are looking for some level-headedness on the topics of AI, self-driving etc, here are some recommendations:

Book suitable even for lay people, written by someone who has been working for years in this field:

[1] Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for Thinking Humans by Melanie Mitchell

People to follow:

[2] https://twitter.com/missy_cummings/

[3] https://twitter.com/rodneyabrooks/

[4] https://www.twitter.com/MelMitchell1/

Edit: For criticism of Elon Musk and/or Tesla:

[5] https://www.elonmusk.today/

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lawsuits_involving_Tes....

[8] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/04/surely-we-can-do-bett...

[9] https://troll.tv/videos/watch/54bc7bd0-8691-4359-aa7d-dc5148...

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#87

Post by xyzzy21 »

Yes. We already knew this.

Elon is a marvelous marketer and salesman.

He's frequently MISIDENTIFIED as the new Edison or Tesla. He's NOT that - both of those men were insanely technical and enough so the jump into technical problems and add value to work being done by their employees. Musk is not that. He's had very little to do with any technical aspects of any of his companies. But there's been plenty of PR spin to imply the opposite. That spin has always been a lie.

I've had Silicon Valley bosses just like him. Our recent president is someone with the same personality just with fewer IQ points. But the same otherwise.

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#88

Post by toast0 »

shagie wrote: post #26
wutbrodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already limitations by road condition. This level of control over the operating environment is part of why so many services are targeting robotaxis as their initial product.

Would a robotaxi in Detroit, Chicago, or Minneapolis in the winter be viable? I'm thinking about those roads where it's nominally a two lane in each direction, but the snow banks make it a 1.5 lane in each direction (if that). Where one doesn't start into the intersection when the light turns green - to give any cars that have the need to slide through. And likewise the ability for the robotaxi to realize "well, I've…

> Would a robotaxi in Detroit, Chicago, or Minneapolis in the winter be viable?

If not, the robotaxi could drive itself to Florida and leave any customers who relied on it up north in a lurch, and also mess up the traffic and transportation economy of Florida in the winter. Screwing two economies with one car = bonus.

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#89

Post by hahaxdxd123 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #41
dundermuffl1n wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work at Waymo. Know lots of folks at Cruise. This is not reflective of the general outlook that most engineers have.

I have engineer friends at Waymo that I went to school with who tell me that real self driving is 30 years out.

What does "real" mean to you? L4 self driving in most parts of dense cities in the American sunbelt and similar constraints for trucking represents massive revenue and a real business in my eyes.

If you mean driving like a human does with no priors over the area and in nearly any circumstance, I would agree.

Re: Tesla Engineer Says Musk Overstated Tesla Autopilot Reality

#90

Post by bobthepanda »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #60
S_A_P wrote: post #8

This is my single biggest beef with Elon and Tesla. From the jump I think that the name overstates the ability of the vehicles. I think his tweets have been consistently optimistic regarding timelines to the point of hyperbole. I agree that autonomy is a worthwhile goal, but I think the real selling point of a Tesla is that they were until recently the best electric car you can buy. That still may be the case today b…

I think it's the best car you can buy, electric or otherwise. That's why it baffles me that Musk feels the need to consistently lie about autonomy, because the car is already great without it, and the "intelligent cruise control" which the car does have is convenient and as good as anybody else's. It's as if Apple made the best computers--which some people think they still do--but Tim Cook was tweeting every day abou…

Are we talking about the luxury priced car where everyone complains about quality issues?

[1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/34144/the-tesla-model-y-is-alr...

[2] https://www.thedrive.com/tech/29200/customers-revolt-as-fix-...

Post reply on HN