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How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

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Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#81
post #4

Imagine going into an environment suffering some serious performance issues adversely affecting the day-to-day operations of the business. From initial conversations it seems great. You're asked about how you'd handle, "difficult personalities" a fair bit, but aside from that, seems like you can add a ton of value. In your first days, you exhaustively quantitatively measure the entire operating environment, prioritiz…

Yes, this is the problem. Unprofessional, low-quality employees think employment is "king of the hill," when really it's "tides lift all boats." It only takes 1 person in a company of a hundred to completely destroy it. Allow one psychopath into your company and it'll go bankrupt or otherwise defunct within just a couple years. These folks are afraid. They know their performance is substandard. They exist by hiding t…

Unprofessional, low-quality employees think employment is "king of the hill," when really it's "tides lift all boats."

Very few people believe teamwork is a rising tide because very few companies do.

A perf improvement that takes something from hundreds of minutes down to 1.2s does make the person who did the original implementation look bad. Questions will be asked why it was so much worse before, especially if those minutes came with an associated cost like build minutes or something, and doubly so if the original author has been claiming any improvement is impossible.

Those people may be concerned that they've been knocked down the hill, but they're also probably concerned they'll be seen as incompetent and a liability, and could be fired (rightly so in this case).

A company will often see an improvement a new hire makes less as making something better, and more as fixing the existing employees' mistakes, with absolutely no consideration given for why those mistakes were made.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#82
I was in a very toxic workplace for the last ~18 years. It's hard not to appropriate bad behavior. It definitely comes from the top.

From people yelling at you in front of your peers, to the not-so-subtle threats. Purposely sabotaging projects you're on. Not providing access or computers when needed. Being yelled at when going to take your newborn baby to a doctor appointment (pre-scheduled).

It's not worth it. Just find a better place to work.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#83

Toxic workplaces are enabled by everyone, not just a few people. When something unacceptable happens, make a decision that even though it didn’t happen to you this time, that’s not the kind of place you want to work. Don’t make other peoples problems your own, but stand up for them. And most importantly, realize that if you can’t quit a job for reasons even if you witness something terrible happen, you’re not an empl…

If only things were as easy as you stated. I don't mind the ideals, but for many, life realities are far from the ideals. And ideals remain just that for many.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#84
I haven't worked at many companies (only 4 during my 20+ years from late 90s until now) and while work at two was stressful (TV journalism and IT) with 'pushy' bosses, I've NEVER encountered any where the environment is truly toxic. And that includes working in different countries, private and public sector (University of California, for instance). I didn't hear too many horror stories either. However people keep talking about toxic workplace like there's an epidemic going on. It feels weird.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#85
I see some points but i'm getting tired of the bashing Basecamp gets. We can clearly see where it went wrong - i mean, at some size of the business it doesnt look good if employees make fun of customer names internally. But come on, i dont think any of the customers were hurt or affected at all, none of them even complained about any such thing happening. So this was some internal whistleblower who raised the alarm and then some internal shitstorm started. And suddenly a stupid joke becomes racism, sexism or other form of criminal offense and nobody has any control over what's going on.

Did the company become toxic? Of course, something broke internally. But was it a toxic place before raising the issue? Not necessarily. It was just some inappropriate fun that should have been quieted and stopped without making a big fuss and throwing accusations around. There are some people who take advantage of such occassions if they can accuse coworkers of 'big offenses' like racism or sexism and hope to cause as much damage as possible (with a good chance of succeeding in such case).

Of course I dont know the real situation at Basecamp, but have seen how easy it's to destroy relationships inside the company and company's reputation by throwing around accusations of pathological behaviors.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#86
I worked in a small startup company (~20) with a horrible founder. As a lead, she would ask me why some people are taking their lunch time after 2pm. I didn't know how to answer. Our standup would last 45 minutes where she would interrogate each person. As a lead, I didn't have the guts to fix it. I stayed for a year. There are many things I should've done and I could've done. That was a truly toxic place.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#87
I don't understand why the author casually says Basecamp "burned it all down". Basecamp took action to set a culture they believed would help them succeed long term. Is having a tough conversation with employees that risks offending some of them burning it all down?

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#88
> How to survive a toxic workplace

One piece of advice I was given early on in my career: "If you can't change the people, then change the people".

Working with people you get along with not only helps keep your mental state healthy, but it also makes one more productive.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#89
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've seen a grown man, extremely well educated, data scientist make a fellow data scientist cry. I've. Seen. Things. Data scientists seem to be on a level of their own when it comes to disrespecting colleagues. I've been surprised by this recently.

Data scientists seem to be on a level of their own when it comes to disrespecting colleagues. I've been surprised by this recently. Pretty much every developer, when brought in as a replacement, will bad-mouth their predecessor, say their code is junk and needs to be totally rewritten, etc. Managers love it and encourage it, to them it's a divide and conquer tactic. Data scientists just take it to the next level, tha…

For swe, I've rarely seen it happen except with junior engineers and end-of-career engineers.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#90

Toxic workplaces are enabled by everyone, not just a few people. When something unacceptable happens, make a decision that even though it didn’t happen to you this time, that’s not the kind of place you want to work. Don’t make other peoples problems your own, but stand up for them. And most importantly, realize that if you can’t quit a job for reasons even if you witness something terrible happen, you’re not an empl…

If only things were as easy as you stated. I don't mind the ideals, but for many, life realities are far from the ideals. And ideals remain just that for many.

It’s not really idealism.

It isn’t easy to make major life decisions like where to live or which job to take or buying used instead of new... etc... but so many people keep acting like they were forced into this kind of slavery when they really weren’t... they just chose X instead of financial freedom and flexibility.

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