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Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

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Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#81

Post by da_big_ghey »

munk-a wrote: post #21

The US continues to support unpaid work in a pretty major way. I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. They've been illegal up here in Canada for a while and it hasn't really caused any economic disasters. It'd be a good change to advocate for down there as well. And, honestly, internships aren't free for companies unless there is literally nothing of value be…

unpaid intern are absolutely good. many i have known are starting this way, before they have plenty skills for to gain full pay internship. ban are stupid, stop your try to interfere with economy via government.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#82

Post by lhorie »

aantix wrote: post #28
paxys wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you are able to find someone desperate enough to take up your shitty offer doesn't mean it is the fair market at work. There's a reason labor laws, OSHA, minimum wage etc. exist. This is predatory, period. The irony here is that they wouldn't be able to do this if they just wanted people to act as photographers, not actually take any photos, because the various actors unions wouldn't allow it. Even namel…

Why would you assume they're desperate? If I took a gig like this, I'd be damn sure that: 1) I am included in the rolling credits, 2) I have several cameo shots within the show, 3) I can use thumbnails of my appearances within my own web site and 4) that I am able to use the show's logo and likeness to promote my own business. My site would lead off with : "Award winning photographer. You may have seen my work recent…

As someone who's done work in a field where "work for credits" was a common occurrence (freelance web design), I can give some perspective about why this is bad: maybe _you_ got the gig and are able to brag about how you're a "award winning photographer", but the problem is that not only you start to attract more people wanting free work in exchange for exposure, but also, these people will also try to push that agenda onto others entering the field as well, compounding the mentality like cancer. It is predatory because there's a lot of insecure upstarts who _will_ believe that free work is par for the course, if someone tells them so while hanging a carrot in front of them.

The inconvenient truth that exploiters want to misdirect from here is that your ability to negotiate all the things you mentioned is not negated by a clause to actually get paid _in addition_ to receiving exposure.

Another little dirty secret: bylines in your website don't mean shit. The money comes from networking.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#83

Post by hosh »

How well do you think a counteroffer for retaining all rights and a license for royalties for each use be received? Depending on how valuable exposure is for the photographer, the license can be exclusive or non-exclusive. I’m sure the brand for that show is important, so exclusivity is valuable. But minimum though is, if you are not paid for the work, then it should not be work-for-hire, and the photographer ends up with ownership of the copyright.

Back when I did independent contracting for software development, who owns the copyright and how it is licensed was usually negotiated. It kinda depends on how much leverage each side brings to the table, and how exploitative people at the table are.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#84

Post by Kalium »

notyourwork wrote: post #43
munk-a wrote: post #21

The US continues to support unpaid work in a pretty major way. I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. They've been illegal up here in Canada for a while and it hasn't really caused any economic disasters. It'd be a good change to advocate for down there as well. And, honestly, internships aren't free for companies unless there is literally nothing of value be…

I don't know anyone during my time as a student that took an unpaid internship. How common is this? All the internships and jobs my classmates and friends were getting involved an exchange of money for goods/services. Who is taking an unpaid internship and why? edit: I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted for not having been exposed to this. If you're willing to take an unpaid internship it's your own fault.

It's pretty common in humanities in particular. It's much rarer in scientific, engineering, or technological fields.

As a guideline, if the field has money to go around and companies have to compete for interns, they'll pay. If would-be interns have to compete for a few internships and the field famously struggles with budgets of two beans and a bit of string, they won't.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#85

Post by xpe »

I'll offer some context that may help people here to discuss with each other more productively. I'm seeing at least four different "conversations":

1. One conversation is about what an individual should do. Is an unpaid gig worth it? Under what circumstances?

2. Another conversation is about what an employer should do. Does paying zero lead to good results? Why or why not?

3. Another conversation is about what kind of society we want. This may include collective action; i.e. what companies to support and what level of government involvement makes sense. This may include worker's rights and possible limitations on organizations not paying some minimum amount.

4. A final conversation is about related events. Is this kind of situation unusual? Why or why not?

There is place for all of these (and more).

I mention this because there is no need to "correct" someone who is having one of these conversations when you'd rather have another.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#86

Post by jedberg »

jfengel wrote: post #73
jedberg wrote: post #7

I actually feel bad for Netflix here. They have nothing at all to do with this (as the article rightly points out) but the photographer is blaming them anyway, and I'm sure all of their friends are too.

Netflix is in a good position to tell its production companies "You pay for the people who do work for you, or we don't pay you." There are unions like SAG and SMA precisely because this kind of stuff happened all the time in Hollywood (along with a ton of other abuses). It happened because the workers banded together to say, "No, you won't get to work with any of us if you don't treat all of us fairly". If Netflix d…

They could say that, but then the deals would go to the other studios who don't have that rule. Any rule that adds cost to a production needs to come from a union agreement that applies to everyone, otherwise the studio that implements the rule will lose all their deals. This is why unions are so important. To force changes that cost money and benefit workers, because no studio will do that on their own for fear of losing out deals to the studios that don't have that rule.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#87

Post by interviewer0000 »

zeta0134 wrote: post #65
duxup wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. When I worked with interns they were all paid... but every one was more time and expense to work with than any value they provided. In weeks they accomplished what I could do in an afternoon, and we spent WAY more than an afternoon of work with them. Amazingly many seemed to have a very high opinion of their productivit…

From the company's point of view, it seems like an internship really ought to be more of a culture fit check than anything else. It's like an extended technical interview in a way: "try on our team for size, see how it fits. Do you like the work? Do we see potential in your skills / productivity?" That sort of thing. Heck, even for experienced engineers there's a spinup time on any large technical endeavor that is so…

12 weeks in the US. In the realm of software you'll make anywhere from 20 to 50 an hour.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#88

Post by throwaway3699 »

the_only_law wrote: post #69
ping_pong wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Washington DC and Hollywood, I think it's pretty common. I haven't heard of this at all in Silicon Valley though. In fact interns are pretty well paid, $7500/month at my previous company.

Speaking of DC aren’t all government internships unpaid?

Yes, but I hear if you're attractive then the Commander in Chief will make it worthwhile.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#89

Post by kmonsen »

jedberg wrote: post #7

I actually feel bad for Netflix here. They have nothing at all to do with this (as the article rightly points out) but the photographer is blaming them anyway, and I'm sure all of their friends are too.

I actually don’t, with the caveat that perhaps this is standard business practice for photographers. For example Apple gets the stock of one of their suppliers are using inhuman labor conditions and I don’t see the big difference.

Clearly Netflix can say in the contract which business practices they are ok with.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#90

Post by kevinskii »

Ensorceled wrote: post #16
shoto_io wrote: post #5

I might get downvoted for that, I still gonna say it: That might be due to the demand-supply situation in photography. They probably will find photographers doing this for the promotion effect described in the email.

Right but abusive and predatory behaviour is STILL abusive and predatory in an oversupply situation.

One time someone asked me for a favor. I thought it was unreasonable so I declined. I didn't realize this sort of thing was "abusive and predatory." I feel so victimized now.
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