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A house 3D printed from raw earth

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Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#81

Post by mikeg8 »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #65
rootusrootus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the first time I've heard of someone considering the Japanese home ownership model aspirational. Isn't that also where the 100 year mortgage idea started? I'd rather see that we built really solid houses that are fundamentally designed for ease of renovation, rather than routinely raze and rebuild from scratch. Code improves over time but not on a timescale that makes 20-year rebuilds sensible.

Unfortunately a lot of the rebuilds happens because of dramatic code changes. Houses built just 5 years ago will often be illegal to build again. Only way to bring it up to code is total remodel or worse tear down.

This is an extremely exaggerated take. Again, the building codes do not upgrade on that fast of a time scale and even if a house is technically not up to code, they are grandfathered in based on the time they were built. A house that was built 10, 20, even 30 years ago, is still totally fine to live in, even if not up to the most current codes.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#82

Post by surgeryres »

wmil wrote: post #80
surgeryres wrote: post #51

Yet another example of the over-hype of “3D Printing”. Yes it’s neat that they collected some local dirt, mixed it with some non-locally sourced water and binder, and poured it into an extruder run on some kind of non locally sourced energy, then sprayed it with some protective coating - it baffles me that people see this as a possible mainstream building technique. Running electrical, plumbing, air conditioning etc…

Automating anything opens up new doors. Continuing to develop this tech could make it useful for setting up buildings in hostile environments. Initially deserts and the arctic/antarctic. But eventually using unattended robots to construct structures on the Moon and Mars. I think the relevant Onion article is this classic from 1998: "New $5,000 Multimedia Computer System Downloads Real-Time TV Programs, Displays Them…

Agree for Mars - this tech will translate well into other areas of need in hostile environments - like agriculture, mining, large scale manufacturing etc.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#83

Post by lhpz »

Bender wrote: post #8

I like the idea. Have these been put through stress tests? i.e. Wind tunnels, simulated forest fire, floods, earthquake, cold / hot weather, powder actuated projectiles and how do they compare to traditional wooden framed or steel framed homes? What is the thermal insulation rating? I would expect thermals to be pretty good. I've seen similar designs using aircrete [1] and those are fire-resistant. How strong is this…

The thermal resistance of raw earth is not good, similar to that of concrete. Thermal conductivity is around 10 W/m.K. To be compared to 0.1 W/m.K for a typical building insulating material.

But raw earth is porous and will store moisture, hence behaves like a two-phase material. Water in the earth may vaporize or condensate in the pores, which helps in regulating indoor moisture levels, and explains the high thermal storage capacity of the material. Since earth is cheap, it's also possible to build thick walls and get a high thermal storage capacity in the building envelope. Sun heat will be re-radiated a few hours later at night during winter, and some the cool of the evening nights will be available indoor during summer days. Because of this high thermal capacity, raw earth buildings are good at this so-called thermal phase shift. But raw earth is still a poor insulating material.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#84

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

surgeryres wrote: post #51

Yet another example of the over-hype of “3D Printing”. Yes it’s neat that they collected some local dirt, mixed it with some non-locally sourced water and binder, and poured it into an extruder run on some kind of non locally sourced energy, then sprayed it with some protective coating - it baffles me that people see this as a possible mainstream building technique. Running electrical, plumbing, air conditioning etc…

You run utilities the same way as with masonry, either conduit outside the wall later, or flex conduit placed into the wall as you build it. I've done the latter in earth ship construction (meter thick walls built with dirt basically) and it was as simple as it gets.

As far as practicality, I'd be more interested in the long term stability of the material. But you likely can do the same thing we did with my friends earth ship style domes, which was to coat them in fabric and then spray a few mm thick layer of cement all over it.

Here's the result. As you can see this is something that would appeal to quite a few people. Pre COVID he had no problem booking airbnb guests for this every night for months out.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCWtTEQDJ1_/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCJnAB7DUfK/ (click through to second pic)

I wouldn't be so quick to be dismissive of this general concept. Particularly in Mediterranean areas where wood framing materials are more expensive, this may a perfectly reasonable approach.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#85

Post by Valgrim »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #60
surgeryres wrote: post #51

Yet another example of the over-hype of “3D Printing”. Yes it’s neat that they collected some local dirt, mixed it with some non-locally sourced water and binder, and poured it into an extruder run on some kind of non locally sourced energy, then sprayed it with some protective coating - it baffles me that people see this as a possible mainstream building technique. Running electrical, plumbing, air conditioning etc…

Exactly. God knows how many concepts I've seen for mixing local soils with magic powder and (typically) forming up walls. I do like that these guys could make rather free-form structures, but building an envelope is straightforward and runs into the issues of actually using the thing (seismic&water issues, installation of utilities, insulation, HVAC, longevity, insurance). It's pretty hard to beat traditional methods…

I'd like to see how these compare with other earth-based construction methods (still used in many parts of the world, including developed countries [1]). My guess is that the voids improve the insulation, but reduce the compressive and shearing strength, but this may be mitigated by the round shape and the internal "triangular" structure.

In any case, it's an interesting experiment that should provide good data and observations toward a more "complete" house prototype.

[1] https://www.lemoniteur.fr/photo/le-pise-ressort-de-terre-a-l...

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#86

Post by nanna »

Lots of unfair negativity here. I think this is wonderful. HN is full of random hacked-up tech that will never solve the worlds problems but nonetheless give a glimpse at what alternatives could look like. Experiments. This is what this is, and in my opinion it's stunning and I would move into one in an instant.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#87

Post by noughtme »

bilbo0s wrote: post #62
noughtme wrote: post #36

You might be more familiar with Mapei, the company that developed the material, TECLA. They are tight lipped about the actual ingredients and chemistry, but it seems to rely on soil that naturally contains cement or lime. The structure also requires a spray applied coating to ensure waterproofness. https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/finally-credible-p...

Just a nit-pick, but the spray applicants generally render earthen buildings moisture resistant, not waterproof. You generally use the old tried and true methods to handle moisture, water and rain. "Good hat. Good boots." Well coordinating landscaping. And appropriate interior ventilation in critical areas.

Yes and no. Having worked in building construction, both classes of coatings would have relevant applications. I was going to complain that Mapei has not released any technical details, but it appears they have: https://www.mapei.com/it/en/news-and-events/event-detail/201...

However, that their "water-repellent" provides "waterproofing" does not clear things up.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#88

Post by Logon90 »

mikeg8 wrote: post #81
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately a lot of the rebuilds happens because of dramatic code changes. Houses built just 5 years ago will often be illegal to build again. Only way to bring it up to code is total remodel or worse tear down.

This is an extremely exaggerated take. Again, the building codes do not upgrade on that fast of a time scale and even if a house is technically not up to code, they are grandfathered in based on the time they were built. A house that was built 10, 20, even 30 years ago, is still totally fine to live in, even if not up to the most current codes.

This tells you everything you need to know about the current codes.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#89

Post by wongarsu »

surgeryres wrote: post #82
wmil wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automating anything opens up new doors. Continuing to develop this tech could make it useful for setting up buildings in hostile environments. Initially deserts and the arctic/antarctic. But eventually using unattended robots to construct structures on the Moon and Mars. I think the relevant Onion article is this classic from 1998: "New $5,000 Multimedia Computer System Downloads Real-Time TV Programs, Displays Them…

Agree for Mars - this tech will translate well into other areas of need in hostile environments - like agriculture, mining, large scale manufacturing etc.

Also looks great for making WWII-style bunkers, machine-gun emplacements, etc.

Re: A house 3D printed from raw earth

#90

Post by FalconSensei »

surgeryres wrote: post #79
prox wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that’s true, and this is no instanthouse.exe, these are all proof of concept projects. Things like longevity or other challenges might not even be the focus. So while this is no holy grail, it’s a stepping stone towards certain building solutions or local solutions (think quick emergency shelters, or off world for instance, to name a few)

I think it’s a great idea to build mud huts on another planet where labor is scarce, machine energy is under different constraints, and certain resources are “unlimited”. But this approach for building a house on Earth to house humans seems way off the bell curve of potential to scale.

You do realize that millions of people live in houses made of soil, right?

And if you consider that brick houses have bricks made of clay, that's even more...

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