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Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

aspe.hhs.gov

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Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#81

Post by runako »

vokep wrote: post #78
kepler1 wrote: post #28

Friends, tell me how I should be more positive or community minded in thinking about this. Because right now, I say -- "anyone who doesn't want a vaccine, well you live with the consequences and if you can't come to rational understanding that it's your own life being saved, then I shed no tears over your choice". People who do it out of religious (or Republican) dogma, I'm not sympathetic. People who believe in cons…

Its not a racially based cruel experiment probably, but it is an experiment on the mass population. The long term effects are untested and unknown, the only accurate description of it is that it is a massive experiment. Look into the 70s swine flu vaccination effort, similar fear based advertisement with lack of accountability. When you have a system with A) massive profit incentive (pfizer and moderna now 'suggestin…

> The long term effects are untested and unknown

This is a common statement about the vaccines currently being deployed. What is less common is that the expositor of this perspective has considered that the same is true of the virus itself.

Shingles afflicts people decades after they have recovered from chicken pox. I remember HIV treatments in the 90s that were thought to work until it was later discovered that the virus can hide in various organs and wreak havoc later.

Regardless of the comparisons to other pathogens, nobody today can make a credible claim about the impact a Covid infection will have on a person 20 years later.

As a society, the choice is crystal clear: vaccines that do not kill people today versus a virus that demonstrably overwhelms health systems, killing lots of people now. This is as close to an IQ test as it gets in public policy.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#82

Post by Steltek »

kepler1 wrote: post #28

Friends, tell me how I should be more positive or community minded in thinking about this. Because right now, I say -- "anyone who doesn't want a vaccine, well you live with the consequences and if you can't come to rational understanding that it's your own life being saved, then I shed no tears over your choice". People who do it out of religious (or Republican) dogma, I'm not sympathetic. People who believe in cons…

My children don't have a vaccine and the probably won't until 2022. They're going to depend on herd immunity to escape it and also the virus mostly sparing kids the worst outcomes.

If you're eligible and you still don't get the vaccine to protect the unlucky people who are still vulnerable, you're a truly worthless human being. Just die so we can be better off.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#83

Post by felixgallo »

adamrezich wrote: post #75
felixgallo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation needed. Relatively few people in the HN demographic believe in this nonsense, as you can easily see in the data in the OP.

it's been over four years, how have we still not learned the number one lesson from the 2016 US Presidential Election: that highly-engaged views and opinions expressed online so as to create an outward appearance of nearly-uniform perspective, do not necessarily represent the views of the collective whole, because many people with the unpopular view/opinion will actively choose to not express it, for fear of ostraciz…

it's true that there's a simmering underbelly of racist grievance and that it can be stoked and amplified, but let's check in in a few months and see if silicon valley is or isn't vaccinated before we start declaring that there's a broad silent consensus against scientific truths.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#84

Post by vokep »

runako wrote: post #81
vokep wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a racially based cruel experiment probably, but it is an experiment on the mass population. The long term effects are untested and unknown, the only accurate description of it is that it is a massive experiment. Look into the 70s swine flu vaccination effort, similar fear based advertisement with lack of accountability. When you have a system with A) massive profit incentive (pfizer and moderna now 'suggestin…

> The long term effects are untested and unknown This is a common statement about the vaccines currently being deployed. What is less common is that the expositor of this perspective has considered that the same is true of the virus itself. Shingles afflicts people decades after they have recovered from chicken pox. I remember HIV treatments in the 90s that were thought to work until it was later discovered that the…

This perspective would seem more reasonable if it weren't based on headlines alone. The sort of headlines it's based on, when you dig into how they conclude to those headlines, often are fairly detached. There are cases of wild stories, but nothing consistent. We don't go in a panic over this sort of possibility with flu strains, when the same possibility does exist. Don't compare COVID to HIV, there isn't a good reason to. COVID is mildly more deadly then the flu, if you wouldn't be scared of dying from the flu, its unreasonable to be afraid of COVID.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#85

Post by giantg2 »

adamrezich wrote: post #75
felixgallo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation needed. Relatively few people in the HN demographic believe in this nonsense, as you can easily see in the data in the OP.

it's been over four years, how have we still not learned the number one lesson from the 2016 US Presidential Election: that highly-engaged views and opinions expressed online so as to create an outward appearance of nearly-uniform perspective, do not necessarily represent the views of the collective whole, because many people with the unpopular view/opinion will actively choose to not express it, for fear of ostraciz…

I would just add that in many subjects, the split between the dominant and secondary policy/idea/candidate is small, like 45% to 40%. That's not a lot of difference and leaves a fairly large minority feeling disenfranchised when the media paints whatever the subject is as closed/absolute/etc.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#86

Post by solosoyokaze »

alamortsubite wrote: post #58
solosoyokaze wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should take the vaccine, but: > Also are you surprised that Black people in the South don't want this experimental vaccine after the Tuskegee Experiment? Is a super important and valid point. Historically Black people have had their human rights violated in similar situations. Johnson and Johnson also knowingly targeted Black people with baby powder marketing after they knew it caused cancer. As much as I th…

Do you think there's anything J&J or the government could do to assuage this particular fear in the short-term?

For me? Honestly, no. I've been avoiding J&J products as much as possible (it's impossible to fully do it) for years.

I won't even say that the issues with the J&J vaccine are indicative or related to their past actions. But who knows? It definitely doesn't look good or assuage anyone's fears.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#87

Post by adamrezich »

felixgallo wrote: post #83
adamrezich wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's been over four years, how have we still not learned the number one lesson from the 2016 US Presidential Election: that highly-engaged views and opinions expressed online so as to create an outward appearance of nearly-uniform perspective, do not necessarily represent the views of the collective whole, because many people with the unpopular view/opinion will actively choose to not express it, for fear of ostraciz…

it's true that there's a simmering underbelly of racist grievance and that it can be stoked and amplified, but let's check in in a few months and see if silicon valley is or isn't vaccinated before we start declaring that there's a broad silent consensus against scientific truths.

I wasn't aware that residing in SV was a prerequisite for posting to HN? especially after a year of increased remote work? I have little doubt that the vast majority of HN readers/posters who reside in SV are going to be vaccinated within a few months and will have zero qualms about it.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#88

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

adamrezich wrote: post #73
psychometry wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/system/files/pdf/265341/vaccine-hesitan... "State of residence" was a predictor in their linear model. A person's state (and its government) will probably affect the outcome variable to some extend, so it's not really surprising that it might be retained as a significant term. However, I find it hard to believe it's so important. I wonder if that predictor is simply confounded with some unobserve…

why are people so quick to wish away the concept of state lines? if there were no (or less) obviously visible state lines in the data, and everything was more of a gradient, I would be immensely surprised.

Sure, but one wouldn't imagine them to be so sharp. It's probably an artifact of the aggregation up to county level.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#89

Post by runako »

vokep wrote: post #84
runako wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The long term effects are untested and unknown This is a common statement about the vaccines currently being deployed. What is less common is that the expositor of this perspective has considered that the same is true of the virus itself. Shingles afflicts people decades after they have recovered from chicken pox. I remember HIV treatments in the 90s that were thought to work until it was later discovered that the…

This perspective would seem more reasonable if it weren't based on headlines alone. The sort of headlines it's based on, when you dig into how they conclude to those headlines, often are fairly detached. There are cases of wild stories, but nothing consistent. We don't go in a panic over this sort of possibility with flu strains, when the same possibility does exist. Don't compare COVID to HIV, there isn't a good rea…

> if you wouldn't be scared of dying from the flu, its unreasonable to be afraid of COVID.

I'm actually more worried that (as in the fall), my city will have to convert our convention center to a field hospital because the local ICUs are full. And then I'm worried that I (or someone I care about) will experience one of the normal things that send people to hospitals, only there won't be capacity to see them in a timely fashion.

And honestly I'm damn sick of the necessary curbs that keep this thing from killing even more people. (It's possible to prefer society arrange itself in such a fashion that we try not to make it actively hostile to the vulnerable.)

This isn't hyperbole, it was 5 months ago. My governor is GOP and doesn't consider Covid to be real. Yet he still authorized giant field hospitals. He still won't open the governor's mansion for tours, in spite of saying all restrictions are lifted (he's not an idiot, he just plays one on TV. Nobody is really stupid enough to want unvaccinated people coming through their house all day.) He has never done any of this for the flu.

Consider yourself fortunate that this did not happen in your area. But don't pretend it didn't happen or is just the media.

And then the main thrust of what I said is this. Nobody knows what a Covid infection today will mean in 20 years. It obviously has neurological impact in some patients. Does that carry long-term import? Nobody knows. Easier to not get it, since vaccines are available and free.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#90

Post by vokep »

runako wrote: post #81
vokep wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a racially based cruel experiment probably, but it is an experiment on the mass population. The long term effects are untested and unknown, the only accurate description of it is that it is a massive experiment. Look into the 70s swine flu vaccination effort, similar fear based advertisement with lack of accountability. When you have a system with A) massive profit incentive (pfizer and moderna now 'suggestin…

> The long term effects are untested and unknown This is a common statement about the vaccines currently being deployed. What is less common is that the expositor of this perspective has considered that the same is true of the virus itself. Shingles afflicts people decades after they have recovered from chicken pox. I remember HIV treatments in the 90s that were thought to work until it was later discovered that the…

>As a society, the choice is crystal clear: vaccines that do not kill people today

The vaccines are killing an alarming number of people today.

>versus a virus that demonstrably overwhelms health systems,

This is not true. Hospitals were and have been fairly empty. Small hospitals at times have been overloaded and imagery from those exaggerated as though its a general pattern when it's not.

>killing lots of people now. This is as close to an IQ test as it gets in public policy.

The death numbers are slightly higher than that of the flu.

Take a look at historical deaths and those this year attributed to COVID. It doesn't add up to any sort of justification of the handling over the last year, nor the push for vaccination.

The IQ test is if you assume headlines are honest condensation of information or not. Every single day I see tens of articles claiming things about COVID that sound terrifying, only to turn out to be the most fearful bad-faith interpretation of the actual information brought up in the article.

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