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The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

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Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#81
post #47

Lots of sentiment today that the USPS is way out of its zone of expertise in doing this -- and that is possible. But it's worth noting that the USPS has had its own legion of postal inspectors going back to the 19th century, when they were a (comparatively) huge part of the U.S. government, and the FBI, etc. did not exist. Some 1,200 postal inspectors are still around, and they play important roles on federal prosecu…

Sure, but the 19th century ended over 120 years ago. So that's kind of not relevant to how they're structured and operate today?

People forget that spying on citizens by the post office goes back hundreds of years. This doesn't make it in any way acceptable, but people shouldn't act surprised that post offices spy on citizens when it's an activity that's baked into the service from the very early days.

https://pasttenseblog.wordpress.com/2019/09/03/today-in-lond...

> The Post office was of central importance to this surveillance. The ‘Secret Office’ – an arm of what was basically a secret service, dedicated to opening post to discover plots against the government – was formed around 1653 under Cromwell’s post-Civil War republican Protectorate; but it proved so handy, the Office was continued after the restoration of the monarchy.

[...]

> Morland also recorded what he saw as the basic function of his devices and of surveillance in general: “a skilful prince ought to make a watch tower of his general post office… and there place such careful sentinels as that, by their care and diligence, he may have a constant view of all that passes.”

Samuel Morland was interesting and has some early computing devices.

https://history-computer.com/samuel-morland/

https://history-computer.com/samuel-morland-biography-histor...

https://www.headstuff.org/culture/history/terrible-people-fr...

One of the links talks about letters sealed in the Spanish manner.

https://regencyredingote.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/sealing-wa...

> It was then that the superior qualities of the new "Spanish" wax came to be highly valued. The basic formula of this new sealing compound was a blend of shellac, mastic, turpentine, chalk or gypsum, and a coloring agent, to which essential oils and/or fragrant balsams might be added to facilitate melting and impart a pleasant fragrance. This "sealing wax" could be melted to a thick viscous fluid which would readily and firmly adhere to the parchment or paper on which it was placed. While warm, it would take a clear impression of any seal that was pressed in to it. It would remain solid, even in the heat of summer, and was flexible enough to remain intact while affixed to the document on which it had been placed. However, it was extremely difficult to remove a seal made of this material and replace it after the contents of the sealed document had been read. This compound was more brittle than beeswax so it could be easily broken, thus providing clear evidence of tampering. Even if the seal could be removed unbroken, any attempt to re-affix a seal was nearly impossible, since, with such a low melting point, the image which had been impressed into it would loose its crispness, if not melt completely, if additional hot wax was used to re-attach it, yet another sign of tampering.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#82
post #11

I feel like the key sentence in this article (edit: which is ironically no longer verbatim in this article, which I see hours later has been heavily expanded) which purports to answer the "but... why the USPS?"--is: > The agency told Yahoo News the Inspection Service collaborates with law-enforcement agencies to identify and assess threats to the Postal Service and its "overall mail processing and transportation netw…

> which purports to answer the "but... why the USPS?" Yes, that's the burning question I took away from this article.

Perhaps it is a hack to route around federal laws - the USPS could have exceptions (or grandfathered laws) that give it more leeway than other departments?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, look at it from totally the opposite direction to see their point of view. Your workers are under threat from poorly made postal bombs that could easily blow up during processing, killing your workers. Due to the vast volume of post you process, the threat is real and non-trivial. Do you do nothing? I think you obviously have to do something, whether you go as far as they did is what's up for debate.

You don't even have to say bombs, the article lists a great example. They are tracking protests. I think I would like to be aware if where I normally deliver mail I'm walking into a protest that might get violent.

If I turn the corner on my mail route and see an angry mob down the block, I turn around? It's not like people don't have eyes anymore.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#85

Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…

And these are their stories. Dun dun.

You joke, but they actually made a TV series. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inspectors

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#86

The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts Of course it is. Why wouldn't it? Crazy people put all kinds of crazy things in the mail. Have we so quickly forgotten the Unabomber? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski The next time anthrax or ricin shows up in a politician's mailbox, the same people gritting their teeth about this will bark about why more wasn't done to detect…

Why would you spend billions monitoring 300 million people when you could swab politicians' mail for anthrax?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#87
post #12

I bet FedEx could operate a domestic intelligence agency for like a quarter of their budget.

You joke but private mail carriers don't have the same restrictions on monitoring your mail that the USPS does. They are free to open and inspect any package, as well as x-ray and other such methods, and don't need to disclose it. Except under some special circumstances, letters and parcels going through the USPS, on the other hand, need a warrant to be opened. One could easily imagine a program where private carrier…

International mail can be opened and inspected for customs purposes. Otherwise it makes sense that domestic mail would need a warrant to be opened.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#88
post #16

I work in cyber security ML engineering (open for interviews, hmu) and frequently see federal contractor firms hiring for cyber data/engineer positions for USPS. Always puzzled me. example: https://jobs.rtx.com/job/-/-/4679/4267185376?codes=INDEED

What is cyber data?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#89
post #70

I'm surprised by the comments here. People seem clueless to real threats the USPS faces and are puzzled why they have inspectors. Last year or maybe it was 2019 a delivery worker was murdered. Agg robberies of delivery workers has been going up. Breaking into mail boxes and mail theft has been going up. Using mail service to conduct fraud and other criminal transactions is going up. I'm on mobile so it's hard to get…

I'm not surprised they have inspectors. I'm surprised they think that social media surveillance is within their purview. I hope their inspectors continue to investigate mail theft, mail fraud, and other things related to the physical delivery of mail. But I don't want them shifting into digital snooping that is totally unrelated to mail.

You do know mail fraud is commonly initiated by online groups, many times on social media, right?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#90

Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…

> Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. Maybe worth noting that USPIS is older than the FBI. It's the oldest federal law enforcement agency.

That's a fantastic trivia fact, I guess threats to the postal service are a very old problem so it makes sense.
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