Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report • Hacker News Board

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#81

Post by guram11 » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 12:34 AM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

> There are real issues to criticize with China, and Huawei is not the worst one

you are right atm "Western Leader" only care and dare to point finger on things in their evidence and interest, when this pandemic still rampaging after a year and getting worst in some country despite the use of vaccines(made in China), Huawei is not the worst one to criticize and confront CCP with

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#82

Post by floatboth » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 12:38 AM UTC

Why does anyone still care about eavesdropping on mobile networks? How come it is still not 100% universally acknowledged that the network is hostile and carriers should not be treated as anything but a dumb pipe for IP over which you have your own security on the application layer? Maybe carriers should just straight up declare regular phone calls as non-private and start publishing all recordings of literally everyone's calls ever straight to their website. Seems like we need that kind of nuclear option to finally destroy the remaining false sense of security in the plain old telephone system.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#83

Post by neither_color » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 12:47 AM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

>That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat.

In realism(as in realism theory of international relations) they are the same thing. You should prevent a rival from having the capability to harm you if you can, not let them develop the capability to harm you and hope that they don't.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#84

Post by Chiba-City » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 12:48 AM UTC

Americans are lying whiny bitches. How do know when Americans are lying? They are opening their bitchy mouths. Ignore whining bitchy lying Americans. I worked for State Dept. I even wrote some paychecks for some filthy paid DC liars. Flag waivers are noisy sissies. Ignore them.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#85

Post by justicezyx » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:02 AM UTC

someonehere wrote: post #43

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

Do you even know how businesses are supposed to operate in China if they’re from the outside? My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country. Also, there have been plenty of stories on HN where American businesses are ripped off by China knockoffs and there’s no way to really su…

> My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country.

The famous “friend” who can corroborate any statement without being humiliated after being harshly refuted...

If you think CCP is so rich that they can hire enough people to make sense of the code of all businesses in China, then you might as well outsource all your IT development to CCP, because AFAIK, CCP government employee and contractors are dirt cheap...

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#86

Post by justicezyx » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:04 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #53

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

I agree that Huawei is not the worst issue to criticize China on. But, you don't need "proof" of a spying to recognize that it's high risk to put someone in a high-trust role if they are beholden to competing interests. The competing interests themselves are enough to establish the existence of risk. You're right that many people who outsourced to China previously wrote off all these risks as unimportant and later cr…

> outsourced to China previously wrote off all these risks as unimportant and later cried foul when their IP was stolen

Give me one concrete example from a reputable source. I'll PayPal you $20 (gift option) look my profile to get my contact information.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#87

Post by alfiedotwtf » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

Maybe we should stop using infrastructure that allowed eavsdropping in the first place, we'd be fine? Then again, if everyone used e2e security, our spies wouldn't be able to spy :shrug:

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#88

Post by boringg » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #17

ajross wrote: post #5

The spin on this situation is dumb. What it amounts to is that KPN hired Huawei on a contract basis to administer its equipment, and as a result those contract administrators had... administrator privileges on the Huawei equipment. Now, obviously telco equipment can be used for spying, but there's absolutely no allegation of wrongdoing here at all. If there is any finger to point, it's at KPN for hiring an untrusted…

I feel we need to read all these stories with a skeptical eye because, frankly, Huawei's become a political football, and there is a very strong motivation to cast events in the most unfavorable light possible by officials who are working backwards from the conclusion. Perhaps they do have some kind of spying master plan but I have found a lot of the fanfare for these stories hasn't held up to scrutiny.

Understand that feeling but Huaweis existence is born from corporate espionage stealing IP from Nortel networks in the 00s. Not a great starting point for a company and it really doesn’t take much of a stretch to see the concern about Chinese party wanting to spy on the rest of the world given the lack of freedom of their own people...

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#89

Post by hda2 » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

tpmx wrote: post #58

ethbr0 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also described America, circa-1800s.

We're living now, not in the 1800s. That may be historically interesting, but not that much interesting beyond that. It's not about who's "good" and who's "evil", now or then.

I think GP's implied point about copying ideas still stands. Like the US in the 1800s, they're not just making clones. They're making better ones. They're innovating.

Taking good ideas and improving them is - and will always be - the fundamental corner stone of human development. That's why "ripping off" more advanced competitors worked out well for the US when they did it, it worked out well for Japan when they did it, it's working out well for China now that they're doing it, and it will work out well for whoever decides to work hard next.

Do you know what isn't fundamental to human development? Made-up concepts like intellectual "property" that only serve the stagnant that aim to rent-seek (and not innovate). These concepts are what lulled the US into a false sense of security and allowed China to excel.

The reality of the matter is that IP laws are nonsense. They only serve to hold back those it binds. Instead of being upset when other people don't play by your made-up rules, you should work harder and become competitive again.

Disclosure: I have no love for China. It is a horrible country with disgustingly abhorrent views. That said, I don't think we should put our collective heads in the sand and avoid addressing the giant elephant thrashing in our room.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#90

Post by russli1993 » Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

Protocols like TLS and encryption is there because any physical network is untrusted. If you have sensitive data, use e2e encryption. And any sensitive data is most likely already using such scheme. Also today's routers and physical network has insane bandwidth. 100 to 400 Gbps networks, billions of packets per second, millions of flows. To sniff the physical network and gather specific useful data, such as a personal contact, some files, or a message, especially from encrypted steams, is a huge endeavor. you would need a large dedicated ASIC with Gigabytes of memory, storage and large power budget. And you need a team of people to work on the software and hardware of such system. And there is no way you can hide such endeavor. Huawei has foreign people in key executive position and in multiple countries. I don't think its possible for the company to keep people quiet on things if these people feel its wrong. If Huawei's attempt to sale networking gear is a secret campaign to sniff and spy on world's data, there is no way these people would not find signs of it and stayed quiet. This whole scrutiny on Huawei has been a long time, multiple years. If foreign employees saw anything internally they would have whistle-blown by now. Honestly, if you want to know what Huawei is really up to, you could get some high ranking foreign employees to check up on executive meetings and documents. Huawei also have customers and partners working closely with each other. They also allow third party's review their source code and products. Many times partners are saying there is no evidence of security issues. Frankly, if a bad actor wants to get access to secret data, its much more useful to hack OS, servers and databases.